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  1. #1
    Registered User DGZ's Avatar
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    Default Identify a 17j 18s Hampden?

    Purely out of curiosity, I just picked up this 18s Hampden that is clearly marked 17 jewels and Adjusted. It is full plate and gilt. When I looked up the serial number in the Hampden database (864,884), it tells me that it is a Special Railway with a two-tone plate finish c1892.

    I tried to figure it out, but am at a dead end. The movement resembles some of the earlier gilt 15j grades that I have seen posted, but is clearly marked 17j and has an additional jewel setting on the plate. Is it an early up-jeweled 17 something, or is it really a Special Railway variation that's not marked??

    Thanks for whatever input can be offered.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Hampden1892_Mvmt.jpg  
    DZ

  2. #2

    Smile Re: Identify a 17j 18s Hampden? (RE: DGZ)

    DZ:

    I think that the confusion comes in because the serial number falls in between reported hunting and open-face Special Railway serial numbers. An 1896 distributor catalog lists an 18-size, open-face, gilt, 17-jewel, adjusted movement with blued screws and a Teske regulator as a grade No. 69 (hunting is grade No. 49). It is a fairly safe guess that this is the grade of your watch.
    Kent
    That guy down in Georgia

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Identify a 17j 18s Hampden? (RE: Kent)

    It certainly is a Grade 69 Model 3-17J-Gilt-Adjusted

    As Kent mentioned, the Hampden Watch book lists only one example (864631) in the 864xxx series and it is noted as the 2 tone Special Railway.

    Todate, I have found 864364, 864379, 864884 (your watch) to all be similar Grade 69.

    I will change the database to indicate that the entire run of 864xxx is this grade 69, as it appears that this is what the run mainly consists of, rather than the Special Railway.

    Thank you for your post !
    Henry Burgell
    Chapters 149, 15

  4. #4

    Smile Re: Identify a 17j 18s Hampden? (RE: HenryB)

    Henry:

    I just checked Ed's and my data base and we have serial numbers 863,149 and 863,651 as the hunting version of this watch, the grade No. 49. Just a little earlier is a Menlo Park grade movement, serial number 863055.

    Do you have reports of any Menlo Park grade movements bearing serial numbers above 863100?
    Kent
    That guy down in Georgia

  5. #5
    Registered User DGZ's Avatar
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    Default Re: Identify a 17j 18s Hampden? (RE: Kent)

    Thanks for the information and I'm glad that the posting was of some use.

    About the Grade 69: this was part of Hampden's move to manufacture 17-jewel movements? Obviously not the quality of Special Railway or New Railway, and probably not adjusted to positions (?), but still in the upper range of movements? or a mid-range grade for Hampden?
    DZ

  6. #6

    Smile Re: Identify a 17j 18s Hampden? (RE: DGZ)

    I'd call it a mid-range grade for Hampden. In that 1896 distributor catalog, there are five lower 18-size grades (having 16 or less jewels) and six higher 18-size grades (all nickel and having 17 jewels).

    It is only described as being "adjusted" while some of the higher grades are listed as being adjusted to position (or six positions, or all positions). So, I take that to mean that it is adjusted to temperature only.

    Following have a Teske regulator unless otherwise stated. Where there is a named grade followed by numbered grades, the numbered grades are identical to the named grade and the named grade is availaable in hunting or open-face:

    $70.00 - Special Railway - Nickel, accurately timed to all positions and isochronism
    $50.00 - New Railway - Nickel, adjusted to temperature, isochronism and six positions
    $32.00 - Anchor, No. 48 Hunting, No. 68 Open-Face - 17J, Nickel, adjusted to temperature, isochronism and position
    $30.00 - John C. Dueber Special, No. 47 Hunting, No. 67 Open-Face - 17J, Nickel, adjusted (Marked "Special Adjusted")
    $24.00 - John C. Dueber, No. 43 Hunting, No. 63 Open-Face - 17J, Nickel, adjusted to heat & cold
    $20.00 - No. 80 Hunting, No. 81 Open-Face - 17J, Nickel, adjusted
    $19.00 - No. 49 Hunting, No. 69 Open-Face - 17J, Gilt, adjusted
    $16.00 - Dueber, No. 44 Hunting, No. 64 Open-Face - 16J, Nickel
    $13.00 - Dueber Watch Co., Hunting or Open-Face - 15J, Nickel
    $12.00 - Dueber Watch Co., Hunting or Open-Face - 11J, Nickel
    $10.00 - Gladiator, No. 45 Hunting, No. 65 Open-Face - 11J, Nickel, Gilt
    $ 9.50 - No. 46 Hunting, No. 66 Open-Face - 11J, Gilt, Gilt, plain regulator
    $ 8.00 - Champion, No. 1 Hunting, No. 21 Open-Face - 7J, Gilt, plain regulator
    Last edited by Kent; 03-03-2011 at 03:07 PM.
    Kent
    That guy down in Georgia

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Identify a 17j 18s Hampden? (RE: Kent)

    Do you have reports of any Menlo Park grade movements bearing serial numbers above 863100
    The Hampden Watch Book lists quite a few actually, the last one being 1839xxx in the book.

    1100xxx
    1184xxx
    1253xxx
    1287xxx
    1336xxx
    1408xxx
    1566xxx
    1603xxx
    1693xxx
    1823xxx
    1839xxx



    One my observersations :
    1566588,1603037,1603473,1829044,1991780

    I have listed all the above runs from the Hampden Book as Open Face in the database.
    Henry Burgell
    Chapters 149, 15

  8. #8

    Red face Re: Identify a 17j 18s Hampden? (RE: HenryB)

    I'm sorry Henry, I didn't phrase the question very well. What I meant was do you have any reports of any Menlo Park grade movements between 863100 and 864001?
    Kent
    That guy down in Georgia

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Identify a 17j 18s Hampden? (RE: Kent)

    What I meant was do you have any reports of any Menlo Park grade movements between 863100 and 864001?
    I spotted 863379 - Grade 49-Gilt-HC-17J-Adjusted
    Henry Burgell
    Chapters 149, 15

  10. #10

    Thumbs up Re: Identify a 17j 18s Hampden? (RE: HenryB)

    Thanks!
    Kent
    That guy down in Georgia

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