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  1. #1
    Registered User Kevin W.'s Avatar
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    Default J.G Graves English watches

    I am not sure if this is correct place to post here, but i will ask.
    I recently purchased a watch exactly like what is in these pictures, mine has serial number 33064 and has what was described as a hallmark silver case, i do not know the difference between this and sterling.
    Hope some one can help with silver definition and age of watch, i did not pay amount shown for my watch, so i am confused a little as to maybe this price was too high or maybe watch is rare, not sure which.
    I am not sure si i will give description of watch and if someone sends me email i know how to send image that way.
    It says on dial J.G. Graves,Sheffield and under this,The Express English Lever.
    The dial has black roman numerals, and is lever verge with key wind and key set.
    I apologize for this long posting.

    ------------------
    One clock at a time. Kevin West
    http://www.global-horology.com/GHMB/

  2. #2
    Registered User Kevin W.'s Avatar
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    Default J.G Graves English watches (RE: Kevin W.)

    I am not sure if this is correct place to post here, but i will ask.
    I recently purchased a watch exactly like what is in these pictures, mine has serial number 33064 and has what was described as a hallmark silver case, i do not know the difference between this and sterling.
    Hope some one can help with silver definition and age of watch, i did not pay amount shown for my watch, so i am confused a little as to maybe this price was too high or maybe watch is rare, not sure which.
    I am not sure si i will give description of watch and if someone sends me email i know how to send image that way.
    It says on dial J.G. Graves,Sheffield and under this,The Express English Lever.
    The dial has black roman numerals, and is lever verge with key wind and key set.
    I apologize for this long posting.

    ------------------
    One clock at a time. Kevin West
    http://www.global-horology.com/GHMB/

  3. #3
    Oliver Mundy
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    Default J.G Graves English watches (RE: Kevin W.)

    These watches were made for about 20 years, beginning in 1888, by the Lancashire Watch Company Ltd. of Prescot (Lancashire, England) and retailed from 1897 onwards by the Sheffield jeweller John George Graves (1866-1945). They represent an attempt to introduce something of American volume-production methods; the volume of production was unusually high by British standards, reaching six figures before 1900, and the movements dispense with the traditional fusee and chain. (Instead, an extra dummy barrel is introduced so that the watch can still be wound anti-clockwise in the familiar English fashion.) Other features of the old English watch, such as the hand-lettered dial and engraved cock, were retained.

    Apart from a brief period between 1697 and 1720 (too early for most of us!), any silver item with British hallmarks is sterling silver (92.5% fine); in other words, there is no difference in meaning between ?hallmarked? and ?sterling?.

  4. #4
    Registered User Kevin W.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: J.G Graves English watches (RE: Oliver Mundy)

    I realize this is a old thread, but would anyone know if the watch in question was a fusse, i dont have it any more. Someone asked me if it were a fusse and i said i did not think so.
    One clock at a time. Kevin West
    http://www.global-horology.com/GHMB/

  5. #5
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    Default Re: J.G Graves English watches (RE: Kevin W.)

    Obviously, without seeing a picture of the watch it is very hard to say with any degree of certainty Kevin. I would say, on balance, that it is unlikely. The Type 7 & 8 produced by the LWC were fusee and they were full plate, key wound. However, their Type, 1,2,3,4,5 were also full plate and key wind but going barrel, in some cases with a reversing pinion to maintain the anti clockwise winding. I am assuming that Oliver Mundy was correct is his assertion that the watch was LWC (I can't believe that he was wrong) and that he was alluding specifically to the subject watch when he replied with similar information to that above and indication that this watch did indeed have a reversing pinion - therefore not fusee.

  6. #6
    Registered User Kevin W.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: J.G Graves English watches (RE: DaveyG)

    Thanks Davey that,s what i thought as well.
    One clock at a time. Kevin West
    http://www.global-horology.com/GHMB/

  7. #7

    Default Re: J.G Graves English watches (RE: Kevin W.)

    I have 4 of these in various condition. They are as described above with minor variation.
    S/N 357,258 , 360,379 and 546,850 have "reversing pinion" inscribed on the movement and have an engraved cock.
    S/N 24655 does not have reversing pinion inscribed on the movement but does wind counter clockwise. It does not have an engraved cock.
    Kevin, I will bring in these to the next meeting, if you would like.

    Jan


    P.S. Should this thread be in this section?

  8. #8
    Moderator Jim Haney's Avatar
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    Default Re: J.G Graves English watches (RE: small toc)

    I moved this to the correct forum.

    Thanks
    Jim Haney

  9. #9

    Default Re: J.G Graves English watches (RE: small toc)

    Quote Originally Posted by small toc View Post
    I have 4 of these in various condition. They are as described above with minor variation.
    S/N 357,258 , 360,379 and 546,850 have "reversing pinion" inscribed on the movement and have an engraved cock.
    S/N 24655 does not have reversing pinion inscribed on the movement but does wind counter clockwise. It does not have an engraved cock.
    Kevin, I will bring in these to the next meeting, if you would like.

    Jan


    P.S. Should this thread be in this section?
    Here are some pictures to show what I referred to above.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Jan
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails DSC00891 (1000x750).jpg  
    Last edited by small toc; 02-13-2014 at 02:25 PM. Reason: replaced 1st pic. with a better one

  10. #10
    Registered User Kevin W.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: J.G Graves English watches (RE: small toc)

    Thanks Jan, for bringing them to the meeting, i know this is a bit late.
    One clock at a time. Kevin West
    http://www.global-horology.com/GHMB/

  11. #11
    Technical Admin Tom McIntyre's Avatar
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    Default Re: J.G Graves English watches (RE: Kevin W.)

    Back when this thread was new, I had no idea what these were. Since then I have developed a presentation of the relationship between the Tremont Watch Co and the English Watch Co. titled Dennison's Orphans. Many or even most of the reversing pinion watches were early machine made watches from the English Watch Co. and the earliest of those show their relationship to the tooling and materials from the Tremont Watch Co. that Dennison tried to transport to the UK as the Anglo American Watch Co.

    The Anglo American organizers tossed him out and he founded the Dennison Watch Case Co. as a result.
    Tom McIntyre Click me.
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    you won't have anything to laugh at when you're old.
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  12. #12
    Registered User PJQL's Avatar
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    Default Re: J.G Graves English watches (RE: Tom McIntyre)

    Hi Tom,

    This is an interesting angle on Dennison...one that I was not aware of.
    Is this to say that Aaron Dennisons' first intentions after departing Waltham were in fact solely to set up an independent watch company....not, in fact a watch case company which he eventually did ?...Or was the watch case manufacturing plan always there as a fallback maybe ?

    Piers
    Piers Lawrence

    'In the end, time makes fools of us all...some more than others.'

  13. #13
    Technical Admin Tom McIntyre's Avatar
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    Default Re: J.G Graves English watches (RE: PJQL)

    I gathered quite a few artifacts to put together this presentation. It along with pdf's of alll my presentations are available at http://mcintyre.com/presentations.html



    The links are live in this pdf file and the keyboard arrows also work to move between the slides.
    Last edited by Tom McIntyre; 05-25-2015 at 04:49 PM.
    Tom McIntyre Click me.
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    you won't have anything to laugh at when you're old.
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