Is it a clock, or is it a Watch?

[f.webster]

Based on size alone, I quess it is a clock (10'" x 12"). But, the works (Waltham Watch Co., 8 Days. 2 1/4" in diameter) say watch to me.

Let me know what you think.

Information to help date and identify this Wock or Clatch would be great! The serial number on the works is 22716546

If I should move to watches ... just let me know.

[f.webster]

Having read the posts below and suggested linked threads, I think I know what the serial number is and that this is a clock (a watch if I look for it at Waltham).

New questions popped up:

• How do you measure this to know if it is a size 37...or what?
• It isn't label as having jewels; however I see jewels. Do you need to know how many to properly identify?
• Dating - somewhere between 1906 and 1955 (excluding 1923 to 1925). Does anyone have a way of narrowing this down?

Right now this clock doesn't work, but soon it will.

[harold bain]

I copied this post from the clock forum to see if anyone could help with dating this clock.

[Tom McIntyre]

The Waltham records only have accurate dates up to serial number 7.55 million. This 37 size movement was made around 1920. The clock is what Waltham called a "Library Clock."

The movements are a bit tricky with two mainsprings and a stem interlock that stops the movement when removed from the case.

Chris Carey of Watertown Watch & Clock put together a PowerPoint presentation on the disassembly of the movement for the local AWCI group in Boston.

[f.webster]

Thanks Harold for getting me to the right neighborhood!

Tom,
There is nothing like running into someone that knows what your dealing with. Thanks for the ID and date. Is there any way for me to connect with Chris Carey's presentation?

Your right about the stem interlock. It is out of the case and it doesn't work. There be more of a problem.. in the case it didn't work either. I think it is a beauty and want to restore it - works and case.

Others have encouraged me and suggested if I replace one spring - replace them both. Other than those kind words, I only know what you have shared.

Anything else I should, might like, or need to know?

[Tom McIntyre]

Chris' presentation is 126 MBytes, so I cannot post it here. I will need his permission to send it to you (if you can receive that large a file). I will check with him.

[Jerry Treiman]

As far as I know there is no "stem interlock". Like most negative-setting American movements, when you take it out of the case it reverts to setting position and the extra drag of the setting train could slow it down or stop it if the parts are gummy.

[Larry Treiman]

Hi, f.webster,

According to a catalog issued by the Clock Department of the Waltham Watch Co., from 1922, your clock is listed as a "Boudoir Clock," Clock No. 1206. The case is described as being mahogany with a dark brown finish. The size is 11-1/8" high, 10-1/4" wide and 3-1/4" deep. The dial arch is 6-1/2" long by 5-3/4" wide. As of March 1, 1922, the clock sold for $30 with a plain dial in gilt or silver, with Roman numerals, or for $35 with a radium dial. The clock pictured in the catalog appears to be identical to your clock, except that in the catalog illustration the Waltham name on the dial is below the center arbor carrying the hands. BTW, the hands appear to be the same as yours, too.

As you know by now, your clock has the standard Waltham 37-size, 8-day, 7-jewel movement. The 8-day movements were made with 7 and 15 jewels (I don't recall if any were 9-jewel or other jeweling) and were available with various winding indicators and types of winding and setting. These highly versatile movements were used by Waltham in a wide variety of timepieces, ranging from folding travel clocks to a boxed and gimballed ship's chronometer-style timepiece, fitted with a more highly-finished and adjusted 15-jewel movement with an up-and down winding indicator. A great many were used for automobile clocks. To go witrh the auto clocks, Waltham also made an interesting "air friction" speedometer (with odometer) invented by Nikola Tesla and developed and perfected by Waltham. The speedometer could be mounted as a unit with the clock or separately. One could build a varied and interesting collection just consisting of timepieces using these Waltham 8-day movements.

As a watch person, I'm sorry to say that it is pretty apparent that these are clocks, but feel free to call them whatever you wish (as if I actually had any authority in the matter!!). I kind of like "clotch," which has three letters from each-- clock and watch. On second thought (before this gets nutty....well....nuttier, why not just call them "timepieces"? To me, they ARE like watch movements on steroids!

Larry Treiman

[f.webster]

Tom,
Thanks for checking on that file. I should be able to recieve it without any problems. Let me know....

Larry,
That is about as complete a history as I have seen. Thanks. I am basically a clock guy. To me they are all 'timepieces'. This may be my first clotch.

Jerry,
"Negitive-setting' american movement? New to me. It might just be the gunk; but, I'd like to understand about a negitive-setting.

[Kevin W.]

Tom i would be interested in that file too.I will pm you.

[f.webster]

It is a watch playing to be a clock.

I tried the works out of the case. Before I attempted anything, I know LET THE POWER DOWN!!!

I can't see how to do it. Any help here?

[hkugrad]

I have the same "whatever you call it", and I've not been able to figure out how to let it down either. Acutally, as a mainly pocket watch guy, I've got 4 of these type. Seemed interesting unil I took the pallet off. Basic instruction on letdown would be very much appreciated!

[hkugrad]

Chris' presentation is 126 MBytes, so I cannot post it here. I will need his permission to send it to you (if you can receive that large a file). I will check with him.

Tom, I know this goes back aways, but the same questions exist. Is it possible to get a copy of this presentation?

Thank you, Dan