ST #1/2 34" weight separator board as in TDL #857, square weight, and bob

**Charles Kollar** · 01-14-2011, 07:09 PM

I believe that I have a Seth Thomas regulator #1 or #2, 34" tall (looks like Tran Duy Ly 837, 843. or 858). The movement is square (like found on the later ST #2s) but the bottom of the movement is mounted on a board that slides into slots on the left and right side of the case. I am missing the weight separator board, label, weight and bob. Can someone please tell me the height of the separator board (as I was going to make one)? Also, is there a reproduction of the "Warranted Good" label, gold (I believe) on black (depicted in Tran Duy Ly #857), that is available for sale? Also, would this clock use the usual 2.5lb, 4.5" dia bob? Any pointers to a reproduction of the square weight would be welcome. Finally, TDY #857 appears to show a metal "stick", is it really wood?

Thank you so much in advance! Any pointers would be very welcome.

Best Wishes!

**Budman44** · 01-14-2011, 09:02 PM

Charles,

If your clock is a #1 it will have a second hand if not it is a #2. The #1's are usually Rosewood and the #2's Walnut. The wgt. board is two pieces. The bottom is 2 inches and is covered with a paper beat scale. The large top one is 13 and 1/2 inches. The top one should be made to slide up enough to allow the attachment of the wgt.
The bobs on the older clocks are not the same as the later ones. The pendulem sticks are not as wide and are flat on the front and rounded on the back and the iside of the bob is shaped to fit. The stick on the #1 is gold leaf and on the #2 it is black.
I have never seen a reproduction label or a weight but reproduction weights keep poping up and most are very well made.

**Richard T.** · 01-14-2011, 10:21 PM

Hello Budman,

I don't understand your post: "If your clock is a #1 it will have a second hand if not it is a #2. The #1's are usually Rosewood and the #2's Walnut".....

There must be a typo above?? As posted this isn't true. No. 2 regulators have a seconds bit and the cases are not usually walnut. No. 2 regulators were available in oak, cherry, mahogany and walnut. What "weight board" are you talking about?

We need some photos to clarify what we are talking abolut.

Below is an oak No. 2 regulator Circa 1920 with seconds bit.

I just checked LY Third Edition Vol I......(sorry I copied the above and can't get out of bold now),...No. 837 and 843 are No. 1's while No. 858 is an earlier No. 2?? The cases aren't exactly alike and yours has to be like one or the other, so photos are necessary.

Best,

Richard T.

**Charles Kollar** · 01-15-2011, 09:25 AM

Dear Mr. Badman,

It has the second hand. My confustion comes from TDL #857, 858 which talks about a #2 and shows a second hand. Possibly it has been miss-classiified?! I have read elsewhere about the second hand being the difference between the #1 and #2. I've attached a picture; It's possibly Rosewood?!

Thank you for the information about the weight board. I have not been able to find that information elsewhere. Several other questions if you don't mind.
1) about the composition of the weight board. Is it plywood shaved to the thickness of the slot on the inner sides of the case? or something else would you say?
2) About the thickness of the weight board. The slot/grove for the weight board appears to be about 1/8". Is the board that thick over all, or only the tougue part. Are both the top and bottom weight board the same thickness?
3) there also appear to be some holes on the left and right bottom sides of the top weight board (seen in TDL 857) can you please give me the rough positions and diameters of these? Are there others?

So without reproductions of the label or bob (I'm assuming from above); I'll just have to skip the label and use a bob (and stick) from a later #2. I've seen a reproduction weight on EBay recently (looks like the weight shown on TDL #845), but never in the usual places that I look (time saveers, and merritts). I suppose that I will need to look around more. It's interesting that there is no reproduction label (I have never seen either), as there seems to be a reproduction label for just about everything else.

Thank you so much.

Best Wishes!

**Budman44** · 01-15-2011, 11:02 AM

Charles,
Yes I think Tran has that one wrong. That clock is a #1.
The wgt. boards are the same thickness and are made of pine or poplar and are tapered just a bit on the back to slide in the groves.
The holes are 3/4" in dia. and are 4 and 1/4" from the bottom to center and 1" from the side to center. They are used for finger holes to slide the board up and down and can also be used to check the position of the wgt.
The boards cannot be too thick as there is not much room for the pendulem or the wgt. given the depth of the case.
It looks like you have the correct pulley with the open hook.
The bezel and the door should have locks using a key, the #2 just had hooks and eyes. Your case appears to be Rosewood.
The paper labels had Plymouth Hollow on the early ones and the later ones had Thomason. Some had the round S.B. Terry mvts. some had the rectangular like yours.
You might try Old-Fezziwig's clocks and parts for a wgt.

Good Luck,

**Charles Kollar** · 01-15-2011, 09:16 PM

Dear Mr. Budman,

Thank you so much for all of the information, and sorry about getting your name wrong in the last post.

So the board is not plywood, but one thin sheet?

Yes, it takes a key, which I have been unable to find. Do you know of a source for a replacement?

I have enclosed pictures of the movement. It's just setting in the case for now. You can see that in addition to the board that I mentioned earlier that the movement is mounted on (right of picture), there are wooden tabs(?) with a slot that the bottom plate of the movement slides into to hold it down. TDL 843-A shows the S.B. Terry movement that you mentioned. The movement that I have has "flavors" of that movement. The design of the suspension spring mechanism, and wire attaching the pendulum to the escapement appears to be identical. Possibly you could comment. There is no real "hook" on the pully, just a "loop" really that the weight apparently hooks onto. Again in the picture.

I'll try "old-fezziwig" for sure!

Again, you are most kind to help,
Many Thank's,
Charles

p.s. If anyone would be kind enough to take a picture of the label, and paper beat scale, posting it so that I could make a print, I would be most appreciative!

**Budman44** · 01-16-2011, 08:19 PM

Charles,
The wood tabs are correct and I have seen them in many different locations but most often at the top corners.
The suspension and verge wire are correct the post and spring look to have had some repairs done.
After a closer look at the pulley I see it does not have a open hook. All that I have or have had the sides come down and come together with an open hook on each one and they are not attached to each other. The wgts. have a iron bar set in a depression in the top not a hook. Yours may be a later modification but I have not seen one like it on a ST.
I believe the movement you have is also a S.B. Terry. I have had several of his regulators with this movement as well as the round one. As you probably know ST bought all his stock, machinery and his designs when he went bankrupt.
My daughter took my camera back to AL. Not sure I'll ever get it back.
I'm sure someone will post a photo.

**Charles Kollar** · 01-19-2011, 06:52 PM

Dear Mr. Budman,

One other question if you don't mind. The glass over the dial appears to be old, but it also appears to be flat. It did not appear to have been replaced. My recollection is that every other ST #2 that I've seen has domed glass over the dial. Is this right for this type of clock?

I found a local wood worker to make a 2" and 13.5" poplar board for me. He is going to plane it down to a bit over 1/8" (the width of the slot), and bevel the edge that goes into the slot (on the back side for both). I contacted "old-fezziwig" for his replacement weight. The stick that I have is rectangular, and it slides into two tabs on the back of the bob (also rectangular). This isn't close to what the #1 would have had on it in the past I'm assuming. Would you replace this with a repo #2 bob and stick, or is that pointless since they don't belong on this clock either. In addition to the weight, I'm assuming that the bob and stick are really likely to get lost. No one has replied about the label and beat scale. Would you break this out into a separate request? Clearly there were not as many of these clocks made as the #2s since there are not replacement parts for them. I'll just have to keep my eyes open for a bob that fits it. Would you have a picture of one that you could share so that I know what I'm looking for? Do really detailed pictures of these clocks exist somethere? for these details TDL doesn't seem to help.

But the case on this clock is nice and appears not to have been played with. It's probably worth doing this much to "restore" it do you think?

Again Thank You,
Charles

**Budman44** · 01-22-2011, 07:24 PM

Hey Charles,

Your glass is correct. I have never seen a #1 or #2 with a domed glass.
I don't have any pictures of the pendulem and my daughter has my camera in AL. Taking picturs of my collection is one of those things that I'm "going to do" been going to for years now.
I would try a separate post for the label and the pendulem.
If you are going to try and find an original pendulem I would just use the one you have until you locate one. If you fail to find one you can always buy a repo. From your description it sounds like the one you have is from a shop regulator.
You are right there aren't as many of these of these early clocks as the later #2's. They were probably phased out in the late 70's or early 80's and the later style ran from then to the 1930's.
I think from your photos it is well worth restoring.

Good luck

**Charles Kollar** · 01-23-2011, 09:45 PM

Dear Mr. Budman,

Again thank you. I'll try a separate post for the label and the pendulum. I have not been able to find a source for even a repo pendulum bob for the #1. My understanding was that they are not the same bob as was used in the #2s.

You were kind to help me.

Best Regards,
Charles