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  1. #1
    Registered User Chick Curry's Avatar
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    Default Post Your W. Würth & Co. Clocks Here

    This torsion clock just got brought in, in sad shape, for service. Would anyone have an idea how old it is. The fairly normal looking movement has only the letters Q.R.P and a number 144687 on the back plate. The pendulum is an enclosed 3 wght unit that has two little dials on top which turn as you move the adjustment. I iwll try to attach a photo

    Any help really appreciated

    Chick Curry 146736
    [edit=267=1175708745][/edit]
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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  2. #2
    Principal Administrator John Hubby's Avatar
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    Default Re: This one is different (By: Chick Curry)

    Hi Chick, please try again with the photo. Based on the info you have posted, I think your clock is probably made by Jahresuhren-Fabrik, age will be about 1904/1905 based on the issue date for the patent number that is on the clock. It is actually "DRP 144687", which refers to the L. Wille temperature compensating pendulum. You don't say if there is a separate serial number, if there is that will help a lot in dating the clock.

    John Hubby

  3. #3
    Registered User Chick Curry's Avatar
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    Default Re: This one is different (By: Chick Curry)

    Hi John,
    Thank you for responding. I am hanging 3 more pictures of this clock for you to see. When I had the movement out for it's initial look. I started to let down the spring. It went to almost no torque in a turn or two. Just then it made a sharp crack sound, the torque returned. The spring was dry as a bone and sticking together. That explains why I found two teeth gone!!! Well, at least I will have something to do. I cleaned it up and oiled everything and the spring. Set the barrel so the bad teeth were just past engagement and put it back together. Set the beat and it runs fine. Just don't do it too long.
    I have never seen one like this one with the cast brass case and 'closed' pendulum. The front glass is beveled as well.

    Chick Curry 146736
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  4. #4
    Principal Administrator John Hubby's Avatar
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    Default Re: This one is different (By: Chick Curry)

    Chick, thanks for the photos. GREAT clock! I've not seen that case before; it is more elaborate than the ones shown in the JUF 1910 catalog but similar to a couple other Art Nouveau style cases I have documented. The movement is Plate No. 1049 from the Repair Guide 10th Ed. page 83, (definitely by Jahresuhren-Fabrik), made in 1904 based on the serial number 4434.

    Now known to be made by W. Würth & Co. in early 1905 based on the serial number.

    One question about the dial, is whether it is cast or stamped into the case front, or is it bradded or screwed on as a separate piece?

    I have seen a couple of these pendulums before but don't have full info on them as yet regarding who designed or made them. Is there a serial number stamped on the bottom of the base? Or a DRGM number? If the latter then I can definitely find out who was the inventor.

    You mention two barrel teeth missing; when you do that job be sure to check all the teeth and pivots on the first and second wheels in the train. Usually when a mainspring lets go with enough force to knock a couple teeth off the barrel, it will also do some damage up the train.

    Keep us posted about how the restoration goes, and also I will appreciate your response to the questions above.

    John Hubby
    Last edited by John Hubby; 07-16-2015 at 06:26 PM. Reason: Corrected maker info.

  5. #5
    Registered User Chick Curry's Avatar
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    Default Re: This one is different (By: Chick Curry)

    John,
    The dial is cast into the plate. There are no numbers or names anywhere on the case, I looked everywhere. I am including a couple of shots of the pendulum just in case.

    Chick
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  6. #6
    Principal Administrator John Hubby's Avatar
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    Default Re: This one is different (By: Chick Curry)

    Chick, could you try the pics again? They didn't make it through. Thanks for the additional info, it's not unusual for there to be no numbers on the case. How about the bottom of the pendulum?

    John Hubby

  7. #7

    Default Re: This one is different (By: Chick Curry)

    Chick and John,
    The pictures do show up for me. Does anybody else have problems seeing them?

    Andy
    So many clocks, so little time.
    The International 400 Day Clock Chapter 168, Global Horology Chapter 192.

  8. #8
    Registered User Steve Patton's Avatar
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    Default Re: This one is different (By: Chick Curry)

    Andy,

    I see them as well.

    Steve Chapter 168

  9. #9
    Principal Administrator John Hubby's Avatar
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    Default Re: This one is different (By: Chick Curry)

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy
    Chick and John,
    The pictures do show up for me. Does anybody else have problems seeing them? Andy
    Andy, the problem I'm having is that the photo in Chick's first message doesn't show, the three pics in his second message DO show, but then the ones of the pendulum don't. I just checked using IE for my browser and they ALL show up there, except that the photo of the top of the pendulum is truncated at the bottom. My normal browser is Safari, and when I right click to open in another window I get the message "Not Found. The requested URL /pictures//1870-Pendulum was not found on this server."

    I'll report to Jeff, have not had this problem before at all. I've got all the settings correct for not blocking popups, etc so don't know what is the deal.

    Anyway . . sure wish there was a number associated with the "DRGM" stamp on the bottom of the pendulum. I suspect this pendulum was patented by W. Wrth & Co. There are three DRGM's for torsion pendulums in the 1903-1906 period by them that haven't been fully identified as yet but which certainly describe features of this pendulum:

    DRGM 215537, 16 December 1903, Jahresuhr Swenningen W. Wrth & Co: "Torsionspendel fr Jahresuhren mit Reguliergewichten . . . "
    Translation: Torsion pendulum for yearly clocks with adjustment weights . .

    DRGM 257636, 13 July 1905, Jahresuhr Swenningen W. Wrth & Co: "Regulier-Einrichtung an Torsionspendel . . "
    Translation: Adjustment mechanism at torsion pendulum . .

    DRGM 270879, 26 January 1906, Jahresuhr Swenningen W. Wrth & Co: "Przisions-Reguliereinrichtung fr Drehpendel . . "
    Translation: Precision adjustment mechanism for turning pendulums . .

    The partial descriptions in German are from an article written by Duck in the Feb. 2006 Bulletin. There are more complete descriptions at the NAWCC library that I will obtain, also may be other sources to identify this pendulum.

    John Hubby

    [edit=97=1176421502][/edit]

  10. #10
    Registered User Steve Patton's Avatar
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    Default Re: This one is different (By: Chick Curry)

    John, Jeff
    The pendulum top also appears truncated to me using
    ie6. That's probably an error on the post. The rest are
    fine.
    The first picture resolution = 450x338
    The second series (3) resolution = 450x600
    The last two (pendulum) resolution = 450x338
    Could this be a factor?


    Steve Chapter 168

  11. #11

    Default Re: This one is different (By: Chick Curry)

    John,

    For some reason the complete picture did not finish uploading. If Chick would please send me a new photo I will replace the damaged photo.
    Jeff Hamilton, FNAWCC, Certified Master Clockmaker www.clockmaker.com & www.atmostools.com

  12. #12
    Forums Administrator harold bain's Avatar
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    Default Re: This one is different (By: Chick Curry)

    Jeff, this happens when you don't wait long enough to download picture, before going on to other things. Discovered the hard way
    harold bain, Member ch 33
    "If it won't "tick",
    let me "tock" to it"

  13. #13
    Registered User Chick Curry's Avatar
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    Default Re: This one is different (By: Chick Curry)

    gentlemen,

    I will reattach the two pendulum pix after resizing them to smaller.

    Chick
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  14. #14
    Registered User lesbradley's Avatar
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    Default JUF or Kienzle (By: Chick Curry)

    I first saw this clock 4 months ago and on cursory inspection assumed it was a JUF because of the dial and the pendulum. Now I have just bought it and properly got my hands on it, the finials, the mainspring ratchet clamp and the clock platform scream Kienzle at me. Nearest backplate in the guide though appears to be 1603 which Terwilliger calls a JUF. The pendulum also has the same no. as the backplate (12122) stamped underneath as well as the letters D.R.G.M.
    Would be pleased to hear any comments and I am hoping for enlightenment on the correct origins of this clock.
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    Les Bradley

  15. #15
    Registered user. Ingulphus's Avatar
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    Default Re: JUF or Kienzle (By: lesbradley)

    Les -

    A nice clock! That style of dial was used by JUF, certainly, but the finals on the crown are what I've seen on early Kienzles (although I've not seen many). The finials at the top of the columns are new to me, though. And pendulum #20 has appeared on several clocks, though I've mostly seen it used with JUF. When I get home I'll compare the base with my Kienzle - I've started to notice a consistency in the base design amongst certain companies.
    Si non caste, tamen caute...

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