where to get appraisal of pocket watches

[amskogen@ronan.net]

I have a friend who is working on a estate and would like to know the value of several old pocket watches where can I go to get some values on watches? Al

[Surf Monkey]

I have a friend who is working on a estate and would like to know the value of several old pocket watches where can I go to get some values on watches? Al

I'd probably start by looking at The Complete Price Guide to Watches (Shugart.) See if there's a copy at your library first. No sense in buying it if you only have a few watches to identify and put a value on. It's a simple and informative reference that helps you identify the various manufacturers and grades. The pricing listed in it is only a general guide, but it can be helpful when trying to determine what's wheat and what's chaff. At the very least your friend can use the guide to protect himself when/if he hires an actual appraiser.

[MartyR]

At the very least your friend can use the guide to protect himself when/if he hires an actual appraiser.

I think that's the real fact. Most serious collectors I know view Shugart as worthless - it's very often simply wrong and it doesn't explain how it works out its values so it cannot be relied upon.

The only proper valuation of a watch is what it (or a very similar watch) sold for in the last (say) six months. The only way I know to get such a value is to scan completed sales at auction sites (not eBay, which is highly unreliable for many other reasons). Look at the Bonhams or Christies or Antiquorum websites, and search their "past sales" for the manufacturer you're looking for, then try to find a close match to your watch. If you find it, then you have a sale price and a date, and you can estimate a current value. If you can't find a match, then you're in the hands of dealers, in which case .... good luck

[Surf Monkey]

Most serious collectors I know view Shugart as worthless

I think most casual collectors would also agree.

The point I was making, maybe not clearly enough, is that it can be helpful as a basic identification tool and can protect you from a shady appraiser telling you that your BW Raymond Up/Down is worth $150.

To be clear: I would NOT use Shugart as an accurate price guide. It's only a very general starting point for people who have no background in watches whatsoever.

[John Pavlik]

Marty,

Just how many 17 jewel Elgin or Waltham examples do you think you will find at Bonhams or Christies? In my opionion, ebay is not unreliable and is close as you will get to a willing buyer and willing seller, on a multitude of pocket watches.. I am not sure why you continue to have this stomp ebay at every chance attitude..

[Tom McIntyre]

Apart from very exceptional examples, the major auction houses like Sotheby's, Christy's, Bonham's, Patrizzi, or Antiquorum do not sell the type of watch that is generally inquired about here.

Jones & Horan and other similar houses do sell these items, but the results are generally only available from Jones & Horan.

In all cases, the prices are strongly influenced by originality and condition, which are hard to assess from the on-line images. There are on-line condition reports generated at about the time of the sales. I am not sure if those are kept with the results or not.

If you are going to hire a legitimate appraiser, you need to expect them to take the time to find the comparable pieces and prepare the appraisal documents. Their time is worth at least as much as a watch repairman's time and most will probably charge $60 to $125/hr.

If you have 50 watches that you think are worth over $100,000 as a group, you can easily justify the cost of an appraisal. Otherwise, it may not make economic sense. Commodity items like most railroad watches are quite a bit easier to evaluate, but they still have condition issues that may be very subtle.

Alternatively, you can just sell them in a well advertised live auction. That will bring the closest you can get to fair market value, but you will need to deduct the cost of auction commissions from the proceeds.

[Dr. Jon]

To amplify Tom's comment, Jones and Horan post results as a revision to their on-line catalog which is usually available for a few years after the sale. It also has several photos and condition reports so you get an idea of type and condition.

That is probably the best freely avialable source for values but its far from infallible. For example they get a lot of telephone and other remote buyers who may not have actually seen the item. They are good about taking items back in case of misunderstanding. Thus a really high price may not have held. Also, like all auctions sometimes people get carried away and bid silly amounts.

Its hard to resist. I once bought an item for quite bit more than I meant to spend because I just did not like the guy I was bidding against. It turned out Ok since he was not as stupid as I was but the value was a bit distorted.



Another potential distortion is that sometimes they get many lots of a common watch. I have seen sales with over 30 Hamilton 992's. After the first few go, the prices start to fall pretty fast. When they have that many of one type, they are sold in a random order so better ones later may go for less than uglier ones early in the sale.

In a few instances I have seen watches at Jones Horan go for more than very similar ones went for in New York. I saw a very fine English watch that did not get its reserve of about $2500 in New York go for $4000 at Jones Horan. It had some damage that was not evident in the New York catalog so there was less watch than I thought it was in New York and it did better with them than it did with one of the major houses.

Bear in mind too that Jones Horan gets a seller's commision so the seller does not get the full auction price.

For all its flaws, the Jones Horan prices realized archives are the most reliable value indicators for most watches likely to show up in an estate.

You still may need the help of an expert. Lots of watches are private labels. This means they were not signed by the maker but by the retailer who may have sold several makes. You may need the services of someone who can recognize who made the watch so you can find the appropriate listing in either Shugart or an auction house listing.

[Jeff Hess]

It depends on the TYPE of appraisal needed.

IRs defines "value" in many ways

retail value?
Wholesale?
Fair market value?
Liquidation.

Is the party under "time constraints or duress"?

And then there is insurance value, which depends on whether your policy is an "agreed value" policy or an Inland Marine policy.

Be careful when approaching this.

On this board we all tend to talk about liquidation or fair market value. And this may not be what the estate wants.

Jeff

[Tom McIntyre]

I generally provide three values or value ranges. The quick sale value is the lowest and represents what essentially any wholesaler of the item would be willing to pay for it. The auction value represents the expected price at a well advertised auction and the retail (or replacement) value is what you might expect to pay for the item in a retail store setting.

Depending on the type of merchandise, the differences between quick sale and retail can range from 1:2 all the way up to 1:5. For some very well known commodity type items, the quick sale to retail ratio may get all the way down to 1:1.2.