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  1. #16
    Registered User Ethan Lipsig's Avatar
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    Default Re: Knapp watch cases (By: Steven661)

    I said "I am guessing [that your case] originally held an Illinois Grade 435, 437, 438, or 439 movement, and it perhaps still does." It's got an Illinois Grade 437 movement, very likely original to the case. The winding gears are badly corroded.

    Grade 437 is a high grade movement and relatively scarce (about 2000 were made). I doubt that you would ever recover the cost of restoring the watch to excellent condition, but it ought to be restored.

  2. #17

    Default Re: Knapp watch cases (By: Steven661)

    From my research I would say this is a Illinois Grade 437 with a production date of 1920 based on it being 19 jewels adjusted and with a serial number 0f 3761524. Any feedback would be appreciated.

  3. #18

    Default Restoration (By: Steven661)

    My computer is lagging so I didn't see your post. Thank you for your help you are obviously very good at what you do. After I read your response I looked closely at it and you were spot on with your assessment on it's condition. Except for the the crystal I believe. Once I got it apart it turns out to be a plastic replacement but the rest was spot on. You mentioned full restoration and the high cost but I do appreciate history. I obviously know nothing about the restoration process. Basically if nothing is broken just gummed up are we talking a good cleaning at a relative low cost until you have to start replacing components with the cost skyrocketing? Your advise is greatly appreciated.

  4. #19

    Default Re: Restoration (By: Steven661)

    I just thought about it and it is probably pricey regardless because of the man hours involved in taking it apart to clean it.

  5. #20
    Technical Admin Tom McIntyre's Avatar
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    Default Re: Knapp watch cases

    Your watch is a distressed example of the Illinois 437 model 1XT. 2,060 of these were made in 8 runs between 1918 and 1921.

    Here is another thread showing my 437's.
    Tom McIntyre Click me.
    If you don't learn to laugh at trouble,
    you won't have anything to laugh at when you're old.
    Will Rogers

  6. #21

    Default Re: Knapp watch cases

    I am not the expert that Jerry and Ethan are, but I can say that yes, the movement is just what Ethan expected to see. It is the 19J grade 437 (Tom beat me to the draw.) of the extra-thin models. The movement looks intact, with the exception of a missing regulator. That may not be easy to find unless you find someone selling a parts movement. The case looks like it is very nice but has suffered some discoloration due to exposure to some element(s). The one winding wheel also shows evidence of exposure to moisture, or? Still, all in all, a nice example of the watch, and what might be a very nice example of a Knapp case, with a little sprucing up.

    That's a very nice first watch to have picked up for a song. Congratulations, and enjoy.

  7. #22
    Registered User Ethan Lipsig's Avatar
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    Default Re: Knapp watch cases (By: MrRoundel)

    I have two very clean Illinois 438 movements that I believe are in good running order if you, Steven661, want to restore your watch.

  8. #23
    Registered User musicguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Knapp watch cases

    Nice first watch. I really like the jeweled barrel movements
    (even though it is in rough shape)

    Rob
    Last edited by musicguy; 08-12-2017 at 05:38 AM.

  9. #24

    Default Re: Knapp watch cases (By: musicguy)

    Thank you MrRoundel. You may have been beaten to the punch, but I wasn't aware it was missing the regulator (or any other pieces for that matter?) which is a BIG help to me. As for the 438 I will keep you in mind, but the same guy has three more individual movements for sale I would like to look at.

  10. #25

    Default Re: Knapp watch cases (By: musicguy)

    Thank you MrRoundel. You may have been beaten to the punch, but i wasn't aware it was missing the regulator (or any other pieces?). That's a big help.

  11. #26

    Default 438s (By: musicguy)

    Your collection is beautiful and if I am in the market for a new movement I will keep you in mind. I would be lucky to own one of your 438s Ethan.

  12. #27

    Default Re: 438s (By: Steven661)

    Knapp 14k triple signed case. What does it mean in layman's terms to rarity or value if a case is triple signed. Initially when I asked for your folks help I was told that I needed to take a picture of either the movement or the back of the case. My case is marked on two different components with Knapp 14k 11410. The back has what I believe to be a persons' initials. Are the initials on the back good or bad and does it only make a difference if it is a signed case?

  13. #28
    Registered User Jerry Treiman's Avatar
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    Default Re: 438s (By: Steven661)

    There are various ways the Knapp cases are marked over their years of production, including many suspected Knapp cases that are unsigned. I don't think the signature, or number of signatures relates to the rarity of the case -- these cases are uncommon enough (and getting scarcer). More important (I think) is condition and the type of enamel detailing or carving. Yours appears to have very nice enameling, making it a rather desireable case, for those of us who value men's dress watches of this era.

    Initials or monograms (or other inscriptions) are a matter of taste. Some collectors do not want a case with any engraving. However, many of us have no problem with well-executed, period engraving. For some of us we even find enhanced value in the history and context that personalization can provide.
    Jerry Treiman, NAWCC member since 1971
    Charter member of Pocket Horology Chapter 174

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