Goal: $300, Received: $225.00 (75%) Contribute Now
Donate whatever you can or Join the 14,000 other NAWCC members for only $80 (plus $10 for hard copy publications). Check it out here.



Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 28
  1. #1
    Registered User Jerry Treiman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    5,011

    Default Knapp watch cases

    Does anyone have any information on cases marked "Knapp"? I have seen these mostly on high-grade Illinois thin-model dress watches from the late 'teens or early '20s. I have looked in all of my sources and can find nothing about a casemaker using the Knapp name. The closest possibility I have found yet is a Charles F. Knapp who was a manufacturing jeweler on Maiden Lane around 1900, but that was almost 20 years earlier. Here is an image of the case mark seen in Knapp cases. Any info on Knapp cases will be appreciated for my case research.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Jerry Treiman, NAWCC member since 1971
    Charter member of Pocket Horology Chapter 174

  2. #2
    Technical Admin Tom McIntyre's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Boston. MA USA
    Posts
    19,335
    Blog Entries
    10

    Talking Re: Knapp watch cases (By: Jerry Treiman)

    W. G. Knapp was in partnership with Fred McIntyre during this period. They associated following the collapse of the McIntyre Watch Co. and stayed partners until 1919. Charles DeLong was chief designer at Illinois during the same period and was instrumental in the design of the thin watches.

    There is still a lot of information to be dug out about this. I would love to see some pictures of the Knapp cased watches.

    Family oral history says that Knapp and McIntyre never got along well and Knapp eventually bought out McIntyre's interest with McIntyre using the money to found Lincoln Products, his first non-watch venture.
    Tom McIntyre Click me.
    If you don't learn to laugh at trouble,
    you won't have anything to laugh at when you're old.
    Will Rogers

  3. #3
    Registered User Ethan Lipsig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Pasadena
    Posts
    1,181

    Default Re: Knapp watch cases (By: Tom McIntyre)

    I have several Knapp-cased watches. The first watch shown below is an Illinois Extra Thin Grade 439. The case and movement are great. The dial is in poor condition. If anyone has an appropriate dial in great condition for sale, please let me know.

    The second watch is an E. Koehn.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_0429_edited.JPG 
Views:	13 
Size:	93.3 KB 
ID:	44267   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_0424_edited.JPG 
Views:	8 
Size:	116.9 KB 
ID:	44268   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_0423.JPG 
Views:	9 
Size:	69.7 KB 
ID:	44269   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_8863_edited.JPG 
Views:	11 
Size:	95.6 KB 
ID:	44270   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_8865_edited.JPG 
Views:	7 
Size:	81.0 KB 
ID:	44271  

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_8866_edited.jpg 
Views:	12 
Size:	145.6 KB 
ID:	44272   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_8867_edited.JPG 
Views:	6 
Size:	30.9 KB 
ID:	44273  
    Last edited by Ethan Lipsig; 10-15-2009 at 12:28 AM. Reason: Dealing with message merger

  4. #4
    Registered User Jerry Treiman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    5,011

    Default Re: Knapp watch cases (By: Ethan Lipsig)

    I still have not learned much about the maker of these Knapp cases. In this other thread - http://mb.nawcc.org/showthread.php?6...ighlight=knapp - it came out that the maker may have been W.G. Knapp who, Tom tells us had earlier been associated with Fred McIntyre.

    Another Knapp - G.J. Knapp - is listed in the 1927 "Jewelers' Index" as an importer and wholesaler of watches, but that description does not sound too promising for the Knapp I am seeking.

    [edited to add that I just found reference to a W.G.Knapp Watch Case Co." in the Directory of Directors for New York (1921), so I think this is the source of many of these fine cases used by Illinois Watch Co.]

    I would love to hear from anyone who may have ads or other information relating to Knapp as a case maker.
    Last edited by Jerry Treiman; 01-15-2016 at 11:59 PM.
    Jerry Treiman, NAWCC member since 1971
    Charter member of Pocket Horology Chapter 174

  5. #5
    Registered User Ethan Lipsig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Pasadena
    Posts
    1,181

    Default Re: Knapp watch cases (By: Jerry Treiman)

    Jerry, I don't have any information about Knapp, but I am going to post photos of other Knapp-cased watches I have besides the two shown above. First, here is an Illinois 439 in an unsigned case I think is by Knapp, #3,869.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_9314_edited (524x640).jpg 
Views:	2 
Size:	216.4 KB 
ID:	287846   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_9313_edited (526x640).jpg 
Views:	3 
Size:	215.6 KB 
ID:	287845   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_9306_edited (640x623).jpg 
Views:	7 
Size:	258.0 KB 
ID:	287844  

  6. #6
    Registered User Ethan Lipsig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Pasadena
    Posts
    1,181

    Default Re: Knapp watch cases (By: Ethan Lipsig)

    Here is an Illinois 438 in an unsigned case, #4,199, again I believe by Knapp.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_1838 (502x640).jpg 
Views:	4 
Size:	262.3 KB 
ID:	287847   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_1839 (509x640).jpg 
Views:	2 
Size:	273.4 KB 
ID:	287848   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_1840 (640x631).jpg 
Views:	1 
Size:	304.2 KB 
ID:	287849  

  7. #7
    Registered User Ethan Lipsig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Pasadena
    Posts
    1,181

    Default Re: Knapp watch cases (By: Ethan Lipsig)

    Here is an Illinois 435 in an unsigned case I believe to be by Knapp, #9,686.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_2311 (529x640).jpg 
Views:	4 
Size:	231.2 KB 
ID:	287854   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	019_edited (513x640).jpg 
Views:	3 
Size:	236.4 KB 
ID:	287853   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	017_edited (640x572).jpg 
Views:	3 
Size:	199.3 KB 
ID:	287852   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	014_edited (640x610).jpg 
Views:	2 
Size:	200.6 KB 
ID:	287851   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	012_edited (640x549).jpg 
Views:	4 
Size:	220.6 KB 
ID:	287850  


  8. #8
    Registered User Ethan Lipsig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Pasadena
    Posts
    1,181

    Default Re: Knapp watch cases (By: Ethan Lipsig)

    Here is an Illinois 438 in a signed Knapp case, #11,918.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_3319 (535x640).jpg 
Views:	2 
Size:	266.1 KB 
ID:	287859   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_3317 (519x640).jpg 
Views:	1 
Size:	202.8 KB 
ID:	287858   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_3314 (640x430).jpg 
Views:	3 
Size:	184.9 KB 
ID:	287856   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_3313 (640x480).jpg 
Views:	7 
Size:	200.5 KB 
ID:	287855   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_3315 (640x564).jpg 
Views:	5 
Size:	255.3 KB 
ID:	287857  


  9. #9
    Registered User Ethan Lipsig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Pasadena
    Posts
    1,181

    Default Re: Knapp watch cases (By: Ethan Lipsig)

    Illinois 409 recased in Knapp case #52,169 and Illini 23j recased in Knapp #52,991 taken from an Autocrat.

    - -
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_4276 (555x640).jpg 
Views:	1 
Size:	234.0 KB 
ID:	287860   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_4279 (554x640).jpg 
Views:	4 
Size:	222.0 KB 
ID:	287861   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_4282 (640x499).jpg 
Views:	2 
Size:	206.4 KB 
ID:	287862   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_4285 (640x480).jpg 
Views:	4 
Size:	227.2 KB 
ID:	287863   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_4286 (640x525).jpg 
Views:	5 
Size:	239.8 KB 
ID:	287864  

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_3918 (547x640).jpg 
Views:	4 
Size:	232.0 KB 
ID:	287869   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_3664 (640x480).jpg 
Views:	3 
Size:	196.1 KB 
ID:	287865   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_3665 (640x456).jpg 
Views:	5 
Size:	178.8 KB 
ID:	287866   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_3667 (634x640).jpg 
Views:	3 
Size:	200.5 KB 
ID:	287867   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_3669 (640x534).jpg 
Views:	6 
Size:	190.9 KB 
ID:	287868  


  10. #10
    Registered User Jerry Treiman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    5,011

    Default Re: Knapp watch cases (By: Ethan Lipsig)

    Ethan - you have some lovely examples.

    Knapp really made some classy, high-quality cases. Unfortunately, too many collectors do not value the cases as much as the movements and many of these have been melted down. As a result we are losing a big piece of the history of American watches. I think these Knapp-cased watches (as well as those cased by Depollier, Cressarrow, Matalene, Wadsworth, to name a few) are definitely worth a premium. Knapp seems to have provided special size cases primarily to Illinois in the early to mid '20s. Here are a couple more unsigned cases that I believe came from Knapp --

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	3482458f.jpg 
Views:	7 
Size:	225.1 KB 
ID:	287870Click image for larger version. 

Name:	439f2.jpg 
Views:	7 
Size:	96.7 KB 
ID:	287871

    (These contain Illinois Extra-thin first-model movements).
    Jerry Treiman, NAWCC member since 1971
    Charter member of Pocket Horology Chapter 174

  11. #11
    Registered User richiec's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Brick, Ocean, NJ
    Posts
    5,432
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default Re: Knapp watch cases (By: Jerry Treiman)

    I did find mention in a 1919 issue of Iron Industry and Trade publication Volume 65 about the incorporating of the W G Knapp Watch Case Co by F H Etches, G W Geiling 52 Broadway and T Hartigen.
    Last edited by richiec; 01-16-2016 at 08:43 AM. Reason: mispselling

  12. #12

    Default Re: Knapp watch cases (By: richiec)

    I am brand new to watch collecting. I say collecting because I bought my first pocket watch two days ago and started trying to look into it's history and came up with nothing when searching the model number on the case. That was until I came across this thread. From my novice understanding not many gold cases survived because the movements were more valuable than say the gold to the collector. So I guess I am asking how to determine if it is the first model movement or I might be using the wrong terminology, but Basically I paid almost nothing for the piece and I'm trying to figure out if someone at some point would say put a later model movement in it. Either way it feels like I found a gem that professionals hardly ever hit. I should probably take this as a win fall before I spend money on a lot of bad buys. The same guy has three individual movements without cases for sale as well.








    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	face.jpg 
Views:	20 
Size:	191.3 KB 
ID:	353250Click image for larger version. 

Name:	knapp 11410.jpg 
Views:	22 
Size:	374.9 KB 
ID:	353251

  13. #13
    Registered User Ethan Lipsig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Pasadena
    Posts
    1,181

    Default Re: Knapp watch cases (By: Steven661)

    You got it exactly backwards when you said "not many gold cases survived because the movements were more valuable than . . . the gold." Gold cases were scrapped because the gold was more valuable than the watch to the owner, who likely wasn't a collector and likely viewed the watch as obsolete, old-fashioned, broken, or battered, and did not value it as an heirloom.

    I really don't understand the rest of your post. You have purchased what seems like a very nice, enameled Knapp case. I am guessing it originally held an Illinois Grade 435, 437, 438, or 439 movement, and it perhaps still does. Please post photos of the movement and the back of the case. If the watch has one of these movements or another likely original high grade movement and the movement still works, you may have a very worthwhile example, but it needs restoration. The crystal looks like it needs to be replaced. The hands look corroded. The dial is poor (portions of the applied numbers are missing, etc.). Some might disagree with me, but the case looks like it would benefit from a very light polishing.





  14. #14

    Default Re: Knapp watch cases (By: Steven661)

    Picture is hard to see. Marked Knapp 14k 11410

  15. #15

    Default Re: Knapp watch cases (By: Steven661)

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Movement.jpg 
Views:	23 
Size:	482.8 KB 
ID:	353265

Similar Threads

  1. HOLY FRS. Watch cases ???
    By Don Procko in forum American Pocket Watches
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 02-02-2006, 07:38 AM
  2. Watch case
    By leghorn in forum American Pocket Watches
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 01-07-2005, 10:28 AM
  3. Ball Watch Case
    By GD1 in forum American Pocket Watches
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 06-06-2004, 09:43 AM
  4. watch case
    By rg in forum American Pocket Watches
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 06-03-2003, 11:18 AM
  5. Two-Toned Watch Case
    By Ball992B in forum American Pocket Watches
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 08-04-2002, 08:11 AM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •