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  1. #1

    Default Howard Miller Oooop's

    Just moved and as a result had to dismantle my '70's Howard Miller Grandfather clock. Clock is typical HM three train movement. Well, OK I admit, it had been a while since I had done this and when I went to set the time I forgot that you are supposed to only turn the hands "counter-clockwise" to set the time. Right, I managed to damage the movement and now only the time function operates.

    So.....what is it that I have likely done and is this something I should be able to tackle myself to repair?

    Thanks.

  2. #2
    Forums Administrator harold bain's Avatar
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    Default Re: Howard Miller Oooop's (RE: clockpoor)

    Clockpoor, if I recall, your skill level should be sufficient to troubleshoot this problem. I've never seen a clock that would be hurt by moving the hands clockwise, but the chimes should either be allowed to cycle completely every 15 minutes, or silenced. You will need to get behind the dial (remove it and the hands) to see where it is jammed up.
    A typical Howard Miller 3 train from this era has a German movement that could be from 3 or 4 different manufacturers.
    See if the chime hammers are partially lifted. See if the cable is jammed in the drum (doubled over itself). See if the chime change mechanism is shifting properly, or jammed.
    Make sure the heaviest weight is on the chime train.
    harold bain, Member ch 33
    "If it won't "tick",
    let me "tock" to it"

  3. #3

    Default Re: Howard Miller Oooop's (RE: clockpoor)

    You could have broken a warning wheel pin or a chime flirt, or both.

    Fortunately, parts aren't too hard to get hold of (often several Howard Miller movements on eBay for example), and it's a perfectly do-able repair for an amateur.
    -> posts merged by system <-
    Oh, BTW, it is possible that you've bent parts rather than broken them, depending on how far you pushed the hand back past the quarter point.

  4. #4
    Registered User Scottie-TX's Avatar
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    Default Re: Howard Miller Oooop's (RE: Viennaman)

    Nah! Like HAROLD, I don't think you damaged anything. Altho instructions do recommend turning hands anticlockwise, only problem I foresee in turning c/wise is at 12:00 when tall ramp of snail may foul on rack. Often, the rack is made such to slide behind the snail in that case.
    Set the time. MAKE CERTAIN chimes are not shut off on dial. Let it run for several hours and leave the hands alone during the period.

  5. #5
    Registered User LaBounty's Avatar
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    Default Re: Howard Miller Oooop's (RE: Scottie-TX)

    Hey CP-

    As Harold mentions, look for chime hammers which are lifted. This would indicate a stall situation.

    Unfortunately, these older modern German movements suffer from power loss due to wear and/or dried oils. This frequently shows up as a stalled chime train, especially if the clock is set to play a tune which lifts multiple hammers at the same time (Whittington, St. Michael's). There just isn't enough power up the train to keep the hammers going if the lifting of levers causes an interruption of the sequence when the hands are moved forward.

    The chime stall can be cleared by opening up the right-side panel and helping the chime barrel finish its rotation. Servicing the movement might help matters but replacing it with a new movement is usually the best option. Short of that, the movement can be kept in service for a while longer if the oils are touched up and the movement kept on Westminster chimes. It may also be necessary to allow the chime sequence to finish before advancing the hands to the next quarter.

    Let us know what you find!

  6. #6

    Default Re: Howard Miller Oooop's (RE: LaBounty)

    What's this? I've never heard of a recommendation to turn a clock's hands only counter-clockwise! Have I been missing something?

    What's the basis for such a recommendation?

    Jeez, I'm such a newbie.

    bangster
    1. Check out the REPAIR HINTS & HOW-TO's forum! Click Here.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Howard Miller Oooop's (RE: bangster)

    Just in case you pulled a OOPS check and make sure the weights are in proper places. Chime train won't run without correct weight. And yes we've all done it.

  8. #8
    Registered User Scottie-TX's Avatar
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    Default Re: Howard Miller Oooop's (RE: David B Pendley)

    Yep BONG! I checked, "Ripley's" (source of undeniable authority, LaProd)
    They do, BONG. Indeed many of these clocks contained instructions to advise setting time by moving hands anti-clockwise!
    Think about it BONG. Envision the rack resting on the 12 step and the snail's tall, vertical face is advancing toward it. Where can the rack go?

  9. #9

    Default Re: Howard Miller Oooop's (RE: clockpoor)

    cp,

    The levers that are pushed upward by the 4 lobe cam behind the snail can be forced together (alongside each other) and jam. This happens when the clock is being set 'foward' to quickly. as mentioned by Harold.

    You will have to gain access to the front of the movement to see about this. On most H-M it is a matter of removing the thin plywood trim board (dial surround), all the hands, and the dial (4 latches, or pins, at each corner of the movement).

    The chiming is often the first to go. So, if you see a lot of black goop around the pivots, might be 'end of game' for that movement, as David already mentioned.

    Good luck, Willie X

  10. #10

    Default Re: Howard Miller Oooop's (RE: Scottie-TX)

    Quote Originally Posted by Scottie-TX View Post
    Yep BONG! I checked, "Ripley's" (source of undeniable authority, LaProd)
    They do, BONG. Indeed many of these clocks contained instructions to advise setting time by moving hands anti-clockwise!
    Think about it BONG. Envision the rack resting on the 12 step and the snail's tall, vertical face is advancing toward it. Where can the rack go?
    Okay, if I suddenly take a hunch to re-set the hands in the ten minutes between the warning and the strike, that makes sense. Otherwise, the rack ain't resting on the snail a-tall.

    Golly, have I been mis-advising people all this time, telling them "advance to each quarter, let it chime, then advance to the next one, and so on"? (Easiest way to avoid confusion about chime correction.)

    What should I tell them: "You want to advance your clock a half hour? Instead, crank it backward eleven & a half hours." Seriously, have I been setting my own clocks wrong all this time?

    Wow.

    bangster
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  11. #11
    Registered User Scottie-TX's Avatar
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    Default Re: Howard Miller Oooop's (RE: bangster)

    Nope. I find NADA wrong with your counsel; "Advance slowly, allowing strike at all appropriate times. Can't lose on that one.
    But if you're not allowing it to strike or chime at 12:00, the rack WILL be lying on it's flat because gathering has not lifted it clear of the snail.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Howard Miller Oooop's (RE: Scottie-TX)

    Okay, I understand the forward-setting problem while the rack-tail is down.
    But Willie suggests a problem with the 4-point chime cam that I don't understand. More explanation, pliz.

    Moving forward or backward, all the cam can do is raise and drop the lifting piece as each lobe passes by. How might that create a jam? How might backward avoid it? Given the shape of the lobes, what prevents the straight side from jamming on the lifting piece (instead of lifting it) when going backward?

    Jeez, I'm such a newbie.

    bangster
    1. Check out the REPAIR HINTS & HOW-TO's forum! Click Here.

  13. #13
    Forums Administrator harold bain's Avatar
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    Default Re: Howard Miller Oooop's (RE: bangster)

    Bang, when turning the hands backwards, the lever following the star wheel on the minute arbor cannot be raised, but is pushed aside. So no chime activity is triggered. Most (but not all) German 3 train movements have the strike triggered (rack dropped) by a raised portion of the chime cam. If the chime cam isn't activated, the strike train also isn't activated.
    Hope this helps
    harold bain, Member ch 33
    "If it won't "tick",
    let me "tock" to it"

  14. #14

    Default Re: Howard Miller Oooop's (RE: harold bain)

    Sorry to be so late in getting back on this issue, but did not get around to getting at the movement in this clock until late last evening and it was acutally this morning before I was able to get back on the computer and read all these responses.

    First off, I took a photo of the movement this morning and am posting it with this reply so everyone can see exactly what I am working with. In my tinkering last night, I was able to trip the chime movement and it did then function and followed with the strike. So, as someone indicated in a reply, the strike must be triggered by the chime side. ALso I note that there does seem to be some interference in the rack behind the snail which might be causing the chime side to hang.

    This movement had been running perfectly prior to my moving the clock to the new house and so I do not think it has anything to do with the movement wear or lubrication. My error was indeed in moving the minute hand forward without stopping on each 1/4 hour to allow it to run thru the chime/strike movements. This movement is one that always runs all three trains all the time and is only silenced in that the hammers are moved away from the chime rods so that even though they strike, they do not make contact with the rods. As I stated in the original post, the time train runs fine, the movement just does not trigger the chime side as it passes thru the 1/4 hours.

    CP
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  15. #15
    Forums Administrator harold bain's Avatar
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    Default Re: Howard Miller Oooop's (RE: clockpoor)

    So, Cp, does it seem to be OK now?
    harold bain, Member ch 33
    "If it won't "tick",
    let me "tock" to it"

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