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  1. #1
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    Default Info on Limit No 2 pocket watch.

    • Hello smart watch people. I just got this watch yesterday and can't find out much about it and knew someone here would know. Dial and movement marked LIMIT No 2. Movement also has Swiss Made & 15 Jewels. Has a very thick glass crystal (2.5 mm). Very good runner. Also just noticed it has A - R as well as F - S.
    Never put pictures on here before but going to try.
    Semper Fi, Ed
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails SD532378.JPG   SD532379.JPG   SD532380.JPG   SD532381.JPG  
    Last edited by namvet69; 09-12-2009 at 07:48 PM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Info on Limit No 2 pocket watch. (RE: namvet69)

    hi,
    i have borrowed exactly the samewatch for a fancy dress party and wanted tolook authentic until my son pulled the winding up pin out of the watch. i don't think that this should have come out and now i cannot get it to stay in the watch or wind the watch up. i am not sure if the pin is broken. how can i tell whether or not the pin is broken? there doesn't seem to be anything on the pin which would help wind the watch up? what should the pin look like in it's entirety? mine is just a short bar with a slightly larger bulge on the end which is also cilindricle. can you or anybody else help me. i am not looking forward to telling the person who i borrowed it off.

  3. #3
    Registered User doug sinclair's Avatar
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    Default Re: Info on Limit No 2 pocket watch. (RE: mtleigh)

    mtleigh

    Look for my reply on the Watch Repair MB.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Info on Limit No 2 pocket watch. (RE: doug sinclair)

    By a strange coincidence, I bought a Limit two days ago. Mine is a No 2 N, and the hallmarked case dates it at 1918. I believe Limit were founded in 1912 (in Oldham, Lancs), so one might guess that your watch was made between those two dates ? Maybe ? Of course I'm assuming that your "number 2" preceded my "number 2N"
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 103 1 Limit.jpg   103 4 Limit.JPG  

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Info on Limit No 2 pocket watch. (RE: MartyR)

    Very interesting, Marty,

    So Limit was actually the name of a company and not just a trademark? Apparently they imported Swiss movements into the UK and cased them. Did they then resell them to jewelers, or what? So far, the Limit movements I have seen (photos only) were made by G. Thommen (also known as Revue-Thommen) in Waldenburg, Switzerland. Your's is by far the nicest I have seen, with possibly 17-jewels (?) in settings and the characteristic Thommen snail cam regulator.

    Larry Treiman
    Last edited by Larry Treiman; 10-08-2009 at 05:06 PM.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Info on Limit No 2 pocket watch. (RE: Larry Treiman)

    Quote Originally Posted by 1qaz 2wsx View Post
    Very interesting, Marty,
    ... the characteristic Thommen snail cam regulator.
    What a perfectly descriptive title ! I had noted that the regulator was unusual, so thanks for the manufacturer information

    Limit is still a trading company - see www.limitwatches.co.uk. They say that their first watches were "constructed" in Switzerland, and it seems they bought Thommen movements. They had an "operation" in Oldham, UK until 2002, but they don't say exactly what was done there. My watch suggests that they were casing watches (my watch has an English Dennison case).

    I must find out how to count jewels. For the time being, I have no idea how many this has, but I also thought it was a decent quality movement.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Info on Limit No 2 pocket watch. (RE: MartyR)

    Marty, I always like to "hedge" on the jeweling if the watch is not marked. There are the basic seven jewels: two hole jewels and two endstones for the balance staff, a roller jewel to impulse the pallet fork, and two pallet stones. Those are the basic seven. For a basic 17-jewel watch (by American standards) there usually are upper and lower hole jewels on the pallet arbor, escape, 4th, 3rd, and center wheel arbors, which (I hope) adds up to 17 including the basic seven. The Swiss like to eliminate the lower hole jewel (the one under the dial) on the center wheel, which would make a 16-jewel watch, unless they add a cap jewel(endstone) somewhere to make up 17. There are many variations and additions, but I hate typing too much to go into it here (besides, it's time for dinner). I couldn't see for certain if there is a jewel in the pallet cock, just visible under the rim of the balance wheel. It looks like there probably is a jewel there, and there certainly should be one (and a corresponding one on the pillar plate (under the dial) but because of the lighting down there I'm hedging. Because my X-ray vision is non-existent, I can't see if there is a lower center jewel.

    Thanks for the info on "Limit."

    Larry (who's especially cranky on an empty stomach)

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Info on Limit No 2 pocket watch. (RE: Larry Treiman)

    Hi. I joined the site after finding this discussion, since I've also got what claims to be a "Limit No.2" watch and am trying to positively identify the movement (mine has a busted staff pivot so I need to find it in a catalog).

    I've taken a couple of pictures of my movement... but I have no idea how to attach them to this message! Ah well. My movement looks identical to the movement in the OPs first message, except that mine has the additional legend "30" written in the v between the click wheel and the click. Some investigation makes me believe this means the movement is a Revue 19L Cal 30.

    I'm led to believe that the hand setting works are a good way to identify the movement. But in the BestFit Genuine Swiss Material guide the only one that looks close is the 19L Buser 95/96. Is there a connection between Buser and Revue?

    Oh wait - I think I see how to upload my images as attachments.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails limit no 2.jpg   limit no2 dial side.jpg  

  9. #9

    Default Re: Info on Limit No 2 pocket watch. (RE: DonMilne)

    To MTLeigh, the watch has a screw by the e of Swiss Made that appears to be the set/retention screw for the stem. If you can get the stem back in after you back out this screw 1 - 2 turns, then you can tighten this screw down gently. This will give you an opportunity to deliver back to your friend a funny story rather than a broken watch. JFL

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Info on Limit No 2 pocket watch. (RE: DonMilne)

    Hi, DonMilne,

    Welcome to the NAWCC Message Board. I believe you were correct when you concluded that your movement was a Thommen (Revue-Thommen) 19 ligne cal. 30. I had previously identified the maker as Thommen from the profiles of the plates, bridges and cocks and the location of screws, type of click and regulator, hairspring studs, etc. For identifying watches posted here, I prefer to use references that show the upper/back side of the movement because most postings here do not include the under-dial view. Yes, the setting parts can be used to ID the maker, but it can be misleading, as in this instance.

    I looked up the Buser 95 and was surprised to see how similar the setting lever spring or setting bridge or cap (or whatever it is called) was to the same part on the Thommen cal. 30. Except for the setting part, the rest of the Buser movement did not look anything like the "Limit" movements in this thread. I did not know of any connection between Buser, located in Niederdorf, and Thommen, located in Waldenburg.

    Well, your question took me on a little "journey" via Swiss railroad timetables and maps, and even the internet, and I did find a connection, though not what one might expect. That connection is an electric, narrow gauge (750 mm.) light-railway called the "Waldenburgerbahn." It turns out that Niederdorf (home of Buser) is only a 6 or 7 minute ride from Waldenburg (home of Thommen) on this glorified tramline/trolley car line, built back in 1880 as a steam railway, and electrified in 1953. Not only that, but the Waldenburgerbahn, according to Wikipedia, operates a tourist train from spring to autumn, powered by the railway's last operating steam locomotive, built in 1902 and named "Gedeon Thommen" after the founder and namesake of the "Fabriques d'Horlogerie Thommen, S.A." Unfortunately, there was no photo of the locomotive, but there was a nice photo of a modern electric light-rail train at the quaint little station in the town of "Bad Bubendorf" that made up for it. What fun it might be to be able to say "I'm from Bad Bubendorf, and I got here on the Waldenburgerbahn!"

    Although further searching didn't turn up any formal connection between Thommen and Buser, the proximity of the two firms, and the fact that Thommen was a large firm that supplied movements to other firms (they even furnished pocket watch movements to Rolex) might explain the presence of Thommen-ish parts in the Buser 95. Did you find the Thommen cal. 30 in Bestfit? Did you look under Thommen as well as Revue Thommen? It seems to be a very common movement, and was made in a variety of plate/bridge designs. There was also a similar cal.31, which, if I'm not mistaken, had a negative pendant setting arrangement to fit American-style cases where the stem was part of case, and which had different setting parts. I think there were other Thommen movements that used similar setting parts. Your movement and the one in the original post appear to have a different pallet bridge and other minor differences from Marty's watch, which is why I'm am little reluctant to "stick my neck out" and say with absolute certainty what caliber each watch is. However, the fact that your watch is marked "30" gives me a bit more confidence!

    By the way, I have never seen a Thommen with the unusual damascening on the plates a (or whatever the Swiss might call that finish), and even under the dial, like your watch!

    Larry Treiman
    Last edited by Larry Treiman; 10-20-2010 at 04:02 AM.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Info on Limit No 2 pocket watch. (RE: Larry Treiman)

    Hi Larry, thank you very much for the time you must have taken over that answer! I'm glad you agree with my identification, and that I can disregard that Buser 95 confusion. :-)

    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Treiman
    Did you find the Thommen cal. 30 in Bestfit? Did you look under Thommen as well as Revue Thommen? It seems to be a very common movement, and was made in a variety of plate/bridge designs. There was also a similar cal.31, which, if I'm not mistaken, had a negative pendant setting arrangement to fit American-style cases
    I find the naming of mfrs very confusing. I chose the name "Revue" because that is the name under which I found the most likely match in the Ronda staff catalog. You seem to prefer "Thommen". I couldn't find Thommen in the BestFit Catalog of Swiss Materials. I could find Wittnauer-Thommen but according to Bestfit they never made a 19L watch, never mind in cal 30 or 31 varieties! Under the Revue heading it just says "See Wittnauer" [ it's at about this point that I'm ready to kill someone... :-) ] Ok, switch to BestFit #111 - and it's different! It has those same hand setting parts listed for Buser and for "Wittnauer 30".

    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Treiman
    Your movement and the one in the original post appear to have a different pallet bridge and other minor differences from Marty's watch
    Are you sure? The pallet bridge in both cases seems to me to have that "Klingon warbird" type shape. Of course mine is a bit easier to see since I've removed the balance wheel and cock. Apart from the missing "30" (itself a puzzle) I don't see any other differences.

    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Treiman
    By the way, I have never seen a Thommen with the unusual damascening on the plates a (or whatever the Swiss might call that finish), and even under the dial, like your watch!
    Ah. I meant to give a warning about that. Basically it's an awful photograph. While there is a kind of stripy machined surface on the top side of the movement, and some damascening under the balance wheel, most of the apparent patterning you see is caused by the lighting above my bench, which includes a magnifier desk lamp with an array of LEDs around the rim. It's the number of different light sources that gives the stripy effect, particulary on the dial side which is not damascened, it's just a standard machined (lathed) finish. The same light is also responsible for the ugly blue cast. It's fine to work by (nice and bright), but I really need to get myself a better light if I'm going to take photographs!

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Info on Limit No 2 pocket watch. (RE: DonMilne)

    Hi Don,

    Im sorry if my comment regarding the pallet bridges was confusing. What I intended to say was that the pallet bridges on your watch and on the original poster (namvet69) were the same but that they were different from the one on Marty's watch. There were a few other minor differences as well with Marty's watch. As for the similarity of your (and namvet69's) pallet bridge to a Klingon war ship, it never occurred to me. It has been a very long time since I saw one of those space ships!

    As for the name of the manufacturer, I believe that Thommen was the name of the firm, and Revue-Thommen or just Revue were brand names used by Thommen on their own branded watches. As for the Wittnauer-Thommen relationship, Thommen was a major supplier at one time of movements that Wittnauer cased in New York in American-made cases, and sold under the Wittnauer brand. I don't know when the relationship began or how long it lasted, but I believe it lasted into the 1950's if not longer. I think that Wittnauer assigned their own caliber numbers to the movements, and also handled the supply of parts in North America. In one of my parts catalog, if you look up Thommen, it just says "See Wittnauer." That leads me to think that maybe Wittnauer had an "exclusivity" agreement with Thommen whereby they would buy either all or many of their movements, and in return Thommen would not sell their watcheds in North America. I have to emphasize that this is just pure speculation on my part, but it is (IMHO) given some credence by the fact that Revue-Thommen or Thommen watches do not seem to turn up very often here in North America.

    By the way, Thommen is still in business in Waldenburg, manufacturing precision instruments for aviation, etc. However, they sold off the watch business to the Grovana Watch Co., which I believe is reviving the manufacture of some of the old Thommen calibres. I think they are using the Revue-Thommen brand name. Both Thommen and Grovana have web sites if you are interested in learning more about these firms. It has been a while since I visited their sites.

    Larry Treiman

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Info on Limit No 2 pocket watch. (RE: Larry Treiman)

    Just for the fun of it.
    Here are the drawings of the train engine "Gedeon Thommen".
    I've made quite a few trips on this train in my youth. It is now only operated on special occasions.
    http://www.waldenburgerbahn.ch/dampfzuege/Lok5.htm

    Sorry to get away from watches but it did bring back memories.

    kurtnz

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    Default Re: Info on Limit No 2 pocket watch. (RE: kurtnz)

    Thanks, Kurtnz, for posting that drawing of the locomotive, "Gedeon Thommen"! "Just for the fun of it" really sums it up! I'm rather envious of you for having had the opportunity to make "quite a few" trips on the Waldenburgerbahn behind her! There's no need to apologize for getting away from watches; in fact I don't consider this getting away from watches at all.

    Thanks, again.

    Larry

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Info on Limit No 2 pocket watch. (RE: Larry Treiman)

    Bump to top to be near query on similar watch. Couldn't post link; out of sausages! <];>)

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