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  1. #1

    Default BUNN SPECIAL????

    The Bunn Special was made for a long time and in many different varieties. As far as I know no 18 size Bunn Specials were ever put in factory marked cases. As far as 16 size Bunn Specials are concerned, Illinos started putting them in Bunn Special marked cases around the time the 60 hour mainspring was introduced. As collectors, we see enough very late non-60 hr. examples, which are in Bunn Special cases to think that the factory started using these cases slightly before the 60 hr marked movements came out. However, I would say that any Bunn Special that does not say "60" or "60 hour" on the movement could be appropriatly cased in a non-marked case.

    Now we come to the hard part! It is generally thought that all Bunn Specials marked 60 hr were cased at the factory in marked cases. This, however, is probably not true. The exceptions are very late 161-As and 163-As and probably most of the few 161-Bs. I believe that Hamilton ran out of marked cases before the last of these were sold. At some point they figured out that they were not going to continue the Bunn line and compete with their own 992-B and 950-B, and they sold off the remaining movements in non-marked cases. Many of these are in Pointed Bow RR cases, which have the look of a Bunn case but are not marked.

    Hope this helps, and I'm sure some of the RR watch guys will have things to add.


    ------------------
    JohnCote
    President, Indiana Chapter 18 - NAWCC

    http://www.interstatetime.com
    John Cote
    Past President, Indiana Chapter 18 - Membership Chairman, Chapter 149

  2. #2

    Default BUNN SPECIAL???? (RE: John Cote)

    Bunn Special 16 size watches were introduced in 1914. At this time, they were sold as movement only to a jewler, who then cased the watch.
    The one thing we have to tell when the Factory cases were introduced are old advertisements.

    I know Kent has some of these ready to download, I don't at this time.

    I will introduce a short time line......

    March 1925 LOCOMOTIVE ENGINEERS JOURNAL page 163 [it is the third page from the cover] There is an ad that shows a medium pendant length case. This is the style of case shown in Shugart 2001 page 280 as an antique bow model.

    April 1925 THE RAILWAY CLERK
    A center fold two page ad "announcing the Complete Bunn Special" It shows two variations of the "first model" case, a 14K filled Green or White gold at $67.50 "NOW READY FOR DELIVERY" and A 10K filled "furnished oly in regular gold" (yellow) priced at 60.00 "READY FOR DELIVERY IN MAY"
    This ad also introduces the aluminum cigarette case with a cardboard liner and a bag holding the watch.

    The May 1925 "LOCOMOTIVE ENGINEERS JOURNAL" on the inside back cover announces "THE COMPLETE BUNN SPECIAL" It describes the 21 jewel fitted in Wadsworth 10K filled regular gold cases selling at 60.00.

    NONE of these ads show a sixty hour watch.
    I am looking for the introduction ad for them. I think they were a fall 1925 introduction....I am sure we will narrow this down.

    The later watches were in a Star case with the pyramid bow that looks like the elgin 571 case, but there are slight differences in the dimensions of the bow.

    I have to dig a little more for additional info.



    [This message has been edited by terry hall (edited 12-16-2001).]
    Chapter 17 North Carolina
    http://www.nawcc-carolina17.org/default.htm
    Chapter 149 Early American Watch Club .. Home of Russ Snyder Illinois CD database and Henry Burgell Serial number Look-up ... excellent research resources!
    http://www.nawcc-ch149.com/ http://www.nawcc-ch149.com/pw_dbresearch.html
    Chapter 149 Mentor List http://www.nawcc-ch149.com/mentor.html

  3. #3

    Default BUNN SPECIAL???? (RE: John Cote)

    Hi Guys:

    I thought that we did this already. The June 1926 issue of the Locomotive Engineers Journal had a two-page spread introducing The 60 Hour Bunn Special (350kb). The 60 Hour Sangamo (200kb) had been introduced in September 1925.

    Kent

    [This message has been edited by Kent (edited 12-16-2001).]
    Kent
    That guy down in Georgia

  4. #4

    Default BUNN SPECIAL???? (RE: John Cote)

    We have.....Thanks Kent for the scans.
    The same ad for the Bunn Special Sixty-Hour also appears in the June 1926 THE RAILROAD TRAINMEN.

    Note....the above mentioned ads are for the appearance of the first model Bunn Special case. Note the movements are not Sixty-Hour.
    Chapter 17 North Carolina
    http://www.nawcc-carolina17.org/default.htm
    Chapter 149 Early American Watch Club .. Home of Russ Snyder Illinois CD database and Henry Burgell Serial number Look-up ... excellent research resources!
    http://www.nawcc-ch149.com/ http://www.nawcc-ch149.com/pw_dbresearch.html
    Chapter 149 Mentor List http://www.nawcc-ch149.com/mentor.html

  5. #5

    Default BUNN SPECIAL???? (RE: John Cote)

    Terry, et. al.:

    It wasn't until I read your post above that I realized that the case pictured in this May 1924 Ad (160kb) was a factory case. Have you seen these signed as a factory case?

    Kent

    P.S. The case/watch is NOT "The Executive." Succeeding ads show the same case/watch and have "The Operator" and "
    The Towerman."

    [This message has been edited by Kent (edited 12-16-2001).]
    Kent
    That guy down in Georgia

  6. #6

    Default BUNN SPECIAL???? (RE: John Cote)

    "As far as I know" the case is not signed.
    I have not held one. "I think" they are a standard case and got thrown in the mix as "factory advertised cases".
    I will try to find another example and post it of a different case in a factory ad tonite.
    Chapter 17 North Carolina
    http://www.nawcc-carolina17.org/default.htm
    Chapter 149 Early American Watch Club .. Home of Russ Snyder Illinois CD database and Henry Burgell Serial number Look-up ... excellent research resources!
    http://www.nawcc-ch149.com/ http://www.nawcc-ch149.com/pw_dbresearch.html
    Chapter 149 Mentor List http://www.nawcc-ch149.com/mentor.html

  7. #7

    Default BUNN SPECIAL???? (RE: John Cote)

    In the March 1924 issue of LOCOMOTIVE ENGINEERS JOURNAL is an ad depicting the SIX POSITIONS of the 16 size Bunn Special.
    Here is a close up of the other caseI mentioned.

    I don't have a scan of the entire page, and the picture I took of it is not too good.
    The details do not show well.

    If the antique bow case is described in Shugart as a factory case, [be it advertised, not marked], should this one be included as well?
    Chapter 17 North Carolina
    http://www.nawcc-carolina17.org/default.htm
    Chapter 149 Early American Watch Club .. Home of Russ Snyder Illinois CD database and Henry Burgell Serial number Look-up ... excellent research resources!
    http://www.nawcc-ch149.com/ http://www.nawcc-ch149.com/pw_dbresearch.html
    Chapter 149 Mentor List http://www.nawcc-ch149.com/mentor.html

  8. #8

    Default BUNN SPECIAL???? (RE: John Cote)

    That case is shown in a number of ads prior to 1925. In none of the ads for it, or the case with the antique bow, is it stated that the Bunn Special is available as a cased watch.


    There are any number of Illinois ads going back to 1910 that showed cased Bunn Specials, including 18-size ones and 16-size ones in HB&B antique bow cases. Until some one can show me (or state that they have seen a specific example of) an Illinois ad offering the Bunn Special in a factory case (or as a cased watch and it shows the case) or a properly signed case (that wasn't swapped from a Sangamo), I'll remain skeptical.

    On a slightly different subject. There are mail-order jeweler ads that appeared, after the introduction of the cased Bunn Specials, offering Bunn Specials in non-factory cases. One of the better known is the distinctive Nawco Heavy Duty SB&B case with the inner snap-on back (see the October 2000 Bulletin, pg. 639). These might have been discontinued earlier Illinois production, or Illinois may have continued selling movements to distributors and jobbers.

    Kent
    Kent
    That guy down in Georgia

  9. #9

    Default BUNN SPECIAL???? (RE: John Cote)

    I am in total agreement that the first factory cased bunn specials are the marked first models shown in the above scans.

    The antique bow model is thrown in there from the Shugart book, but the page heading is "Illinois Factory Advertised Case Models and Numbers". I am sure this throws a curve to the new collectors.

    In reference to the Sangamo cases, the first examples of these were not marked "Sangamo Special". They have the Wadsworth marking depicting the patented bow and crown. It appears they Marked Sangamo cases showed up in the early twenties, after the change to the 17 size Model 10 movment....
    There is an example of the "earliest" known factory case on page 48 of the "illinois encyclopedia". Anyone know of how many of these have shown up?
    Chapter 17 North Carolina
    http://www.nawcc-carolina17.org/default.htm
    Chapter 149 Early American Watch Club .. Home of Russ Snyder Illinois CD database and Henry Burgell Serial number Look-up ... excellent research resources!
    http://www.nawcc-ch149.com/ http://www.nawcc-ch149.com/pw_dbresearch.html
    Chapter 149 Mentor List http://www.nawcc-ch149.com/mentor.html

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