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  1. #1

    Default Illinois Central

    I recently acquired a 12s 17J Illinois Central with a two-tone movement.

    What other sizes and jewel configurations was the Illinois Central produced in? Are all Illinois Central movements two-tone?

    Thanks for any information.
    -Steve
    Steven D. Jencso, NAWCC Member since 2003

  2. #2

    Default Re: Illinois Central (RE: sdjencso)

    Hi Steve -

    I've seen the Illinois Central in both 12 and 16 size, but the Meggers Illinois book also lists a 3/0 size version.

    I'm not sure what all the variants may be in 12 size but Jim Carroll has probably kept notes on these and I'll send him an email about this thread.

    I have kept notes myself on the 16 size Illinois Centrals and have 115 of these recorded, and here is some 16 size Illinois Central info from what I've seen ...

    In 16 size there are 17 and 21 jewel variants in both open face and hunting case. The 17 jewel are generally 2-tone with a wavy ribbon damaskeen, the 21 jewel are regular nickel finish (not 2-tone).

    The main 17 jewel grades used for Illinois Centrals were the 304 and 305. A smaller number of 17 jewel Illinois Centrals were made from the grades 306 and 204.

    The main 21 jewel grade used for the Illinois Centrals was the 606. A smaller number of Illinois Centrals were made from the grades 806 and 809.

    There is one other grade used for 16 size Illinois Central production, the grade 609 and I have three of these recorded in my notes but at the time didn't bother to check the serial number and realize they were an uncommon grade and I didn't record if they were 17 or 21 jewel movements. Any info anyone can give on the grade 609 would be appreciated.

    The serial numbers I've recorded for 16 size Illinois Centrals range in date from about 1913 to 1928.

    16 size Illinois Central watches are sometimes found with original signed cases marked either "I.C. Special" in regular signature, or as marked "Illinois Central" in a nice crest around the outside of the inner back.

    Fred

  3. #3

    Default Re: Illinois Central (RE: Fred Hansen)

    Ed and I have one of the No. 609 Illinois Central watches recorded:

    5,027,016, PS, Mvt & Dial "Illinios Central"
    Kent
    That guy down in Georgia

  4. #4

    Default Re: Illinois Central (RE: Kent)

    Thanks Kent ... did you note if it was a 17 or 21 jewel?

    Fred

  5. #5
    Registered User Jim Carroll's Avatar
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    Default Re: Illinois Central (RE: Fred Hansen)

    Hi Steve,
    The Illinois Central is quite common in size 12 grades, I can only give estimates from the info I have.

    17 jewels Grade 127…estimate 300 bright lined movement.
    21 jewels Grade 274…estimate 4,500 rayed pattern
    21 jewels Grade 279 ...estimate 1,100 rayed pattern, this includes 700 from Grade 121
    17 jewels Grade 404…estimate 4,350 sunburst with tutoned wavy lined center.
    17 jewels Grade 405…estimate 6,100 sunburst with tutoned wavy lined center

    Can you give the serial number of your size 12 Illinois Central
    Last edited by Jim Carroll; 09-26-2008 at 03:17 PM.
    Jim Carroll

  6. #6

    Default Re: Illinois Central (RE: Fred Hansen)

    Quote Originally Posted by Fred Hansen View Post
    Thanks Kent ... did you note if it was a 17 or 21 jewel?

    Fred
    Fred:

    Serial number 5,027,016 is a 16-size, 21-jewel watch. I have no other details besides the fact that the DS AN dial had a hairline in 1993.

    Sorry 'bout not putting that down the first time (the jewels, not the hairline), I hate it when people don't provide the full informaiton.
    Kent
    That guy down in Georgia

  7. #7

    Default Re: Illinois Central (RE: Jim Carroll)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Carroll View Post

    Can you give the serial number of your size 12 Illinois Central
    Hi Jim,

    The s/n is 3141393. It is a 17J movement.
    -Steve
    Steven D. Jencso, NAWCC Member since 2003

  8. #8

    Default Re: Illinois Central (RE: sdjencso)

    Jim - Great info as always! I had planned to email you this evening but should have known you'd quickly spot a good 12 size Illinois thread ...

    Kent - Thanks for the info on the grade 609. Sounds like this grade would likely be the pendent-set equivalent to the lever-set grade 809. I had thought I remembered the ones I'd seen as being 21 jewel watches but had never noted it down either way and this was really frustrating to me when I realized this was a somewhat unknown run and grade. This 5027016 was one of the numbers I did have noted but I have no record of when/where I recorded the number, and the other Illinois Central numbers I had in this run were 5027021 and 5027099 which both passed through eBay in the last few years.

    Fred

  9. #9

    Default Re: Illinois Central (RE: Fred Hansen)

    My thanks to Fred and Jim for posting the detailed information!
    -Steve
    Steven D. Jencso, NAWCC Member since 2003

  10. #10

    Default Re: Illinois Central (RE: sdjencso)

    I'd like to see any Illinois Central pics that anyone cares to post ... it would be nice to have some examples shown in this thread and this would make a nice reference here for our board.

    Fred

  11. #11

    Default Re: Illinois Central (RE: Fred Hansen)

    Pics here of a typical example of a 21 jewel pendent-set 16 size grade 606 Illinois Central, missing a casescrew and a regulator spring in this image ...
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 101.jpg   102.jpg   103.jpg  

  12. #12

    Default Re: Illinois Central (RE: Fred Hansen)

    3114320 16s 17J PS gilt tu-tone IC marked movt, Montgomery IC marked gothic arabic numeral dial
    3255002 16s 17J PS gilt tu-tone IC marked movt, IC marked bold plain arabic numeral dial

  13. #13
    Registered user.
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    Default Re: Illinois Central (RE: Jim Carroll)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Carroll View Post
    The Illinois Central is quite common in size 12 grades, I can only give estimates from the info I have.

    17 jewels Grade 127estimate 300 bright lined movement.
    21 jewels Grade 274estimate 4,500 rayed pattern
    21 jewels Grade 279 ...estimate 1,100 rayed pattern, this includes 700 from Grade 121
    17 jewels Grade 404estimate 4,350 sunburst with tutoned wavy lined center.
    17 jewels Grade 405estimate 6,100 sunburst with tutoned wavy lined center
    I have a 17j 16s coming in the mail. I paid for it Thanksgiving Day and am hoping that it gets in the mail Monday. I hate waiting...

    A partial serial number and crummy pictures lead me to believe that it is a grade 306. Do we have similar statistics for the 16s Illinois Centrals?

    Thanks,
    Stan

  14. #14

    Default Re: Illinois Central (RE: Fred Hansen)

    12-size Grade 274 21 jewel hunter #4,645,601, in 14k multi-color Elgin Giant W.C. Co. case #466,259
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails IMG_5490_edited.JPG   IMG_5491_edited.JPG   IMG_5494_edited.JPG   IMG_5501_edited.JPG  

  15. #15
    Registered User Jerry Treiman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Illinois Central (RE: Ethan Lipsig)

    The damasceening on this 12-size grade 404 is a little washed out, but will do until someone posts a better example.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Ill_Cent.jpg  
    Jerry Treiman, NAWCC member since 1971
    Charter member of Pocket Horology Chapter 174

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