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  1. #1
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    Default Atmos Clock Identification

    Hello and Good Day,

    I recently acquired an Atmos clock sn 70,781. I researched a website that told me the model number would be underneath the base.

    I looked for 20 minutes with a friend and we saw no numbers whatsoever.

    Can anyone please help me identify the model of this Atmos?

    I will also need some finish work on the dial if anyone has any suggestions.

    I have tried to upload a photo.

    Thanks
    GB
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails atmos70781.jpg  

  2. #2
    Principal Administrator John Hubby's Avatar
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    Default Re: Atmos Clock Identification (RE: lifeisgud71)

    GB, from the photo posted and the serial number, it appears you have one of the last calibre 519 models made, right at the end of 1954. These were called the Atmos III and were made from June 1950 to December 1954. They do not have a model number or calibre number stamped anywhere on them. It was only with the Atmos IV that the practice of stamping the calibre number was started, that one including calibres 522, 526-5, and 532.

    If you could post a closeup photo of the front of the movement, and also a photo of the top of the clock with the cover off I will be able to confirm this info for certain.

    John Hubby
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  3. #3
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    Default Re: Atmos Clock Identification (RE: John Hubby)

    Hello and Good Day John Hubby,

    Thank you for your reply and here are photos of the front and top of the clock.

    GB
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Front.jpg   Top.jpg  

  4. #4
    Principal Administrator John Hubby's Avatar
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    Default Re: Atmos Clock Identification (RE: lifeisgud71)

    GB, thanks for the additional photos. These definitely confirm that your clock is a calibre 519. This clock has the highest serial number I have documented for this model, so it is one of the very last ones produced.

    John Hubby
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  5. #5
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    Default Re: Atmos Clock Identification (RE: John Hubby)

    Hello again and Good day,

    Thank you John Hubby for both your time and professionalism in your response.

    May I ask how you could tell by the photos, at your leisure, please?

    Thanks
    GB

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Atmos Clock Identification (RE: lifeisgud71)

    GB and all, here are some of the characteristics of a Calibre 519 Atmos III clock:

    • The pendulum design is unique, with 10 round indents around the perimeter of the disc. This is called model "B" in Jean Lebet's "Living on Air", pg 51. This was used only on Atmos III clocks, from June 1950 through December 1954.
    • The time adjusting lever is unique, being quite short and just showing in front of the adjusting scale on the top bridge of the movement. The Atmos IV and later models use an adjusting lever that is nearly 5/8 inch longer.
    • The dial designs are almost exclusively the type with the "3" and "9" laying on their side instead of upright. I call this the "rolling quarters" design. Note there are some with the "3" and "9" placed upright, by my data it appears in the order of maybe 3.5% (7 in 200). The Atmos IV used a dial of batons (no numbers), then the Atmos V returned to the same design as the Atmos III until about 1957 when they began to make only the upright quarters type dial.
    • The inscription on the movements are different from earlier or later Atmos models. Nearly all are inscribed "LeCoultreCo Switzerland VXN Fifteen 15 Jewels" in circular form around the movement center with the word "ATMOS" inscribed below the jewel bridge for the first wheel. None have a serial number as did the Atmos II models using the calibre 30"A movement, and a few are completely plain with no markings at all.
    • No model number or calibre number is found anywhere on the case. Those markings started with the Atmos IV.
    • The serial number stamped on the suspension/rating bridge at the top of the movement frame will be between 25,000 and 71,000.

    NOTE: The Atmos IV was introduced about March 1954 and production was co-mingled with the last Atmos III models right to the end of 1954, when both the Atmos III and Atmos IV were supplanted by the Atmos V. The lowest serial number Atmos IV in my data is 60764, highest is 69374.

    The above characteristics are unique to the Atmos III models. There are other technical details as well but I've not listed those since they aren't visible on a casual basis.

    Please advise any questions.

    John Hubby
    >>>>

  7. #7

    Default Re: Atmos Clock Identification (RE: John Hubby)

    Quote Originally Posted by John Hubby View Post
    GB and all, here are some of the characteristics of a Calibre 519 Atmos III clock:

    • The pendulum design is unique, with 10 round indents around the perimeter of the disc. This is called model "B" in Jean Lebet's "Living on Air", pg 51. This was used only on Atmos III clocks, from June 1950 through December 1954.
    • The time adjusting lever is unique, being quite short and just showing in front of the adjusting scale on the top bridge of the movement. The Atmos IV and later models use an adjusting lever that is nearly 5/8 inch longer.
    • The dial designs are almost exclusively the type with the "3" and "9" laying on their side instead of upright. I call this the "rolling quarters" design. Note there are some with the "3" and "9" placed upright, by my data it appears in the order of maybe 3.5% (7 in 200). The Atmos IV used a dial of batons (no numbers), then the Atmos V returned to the same design as the Atmos III until about 1957 when they began to make only the upright quarters type dial.
    • The inscription on the movements are different from earlier or later Atmos models. Nearly all are inscribed "LeCoultreCo Switzerland VXN Fifteen 15 Jewels" in circular form around the movement center with the word "ATMOS" inscribed below the jewel bridge for the first wheel. None have a serial number as did the Atmos II models using the calibre 30"A movement, and a few are completely plain with no markings at all.
    • No model number or calibre number is found anywhere on the case. Those markings started with the Atmos IV.
    • The serial number stamped on the suspension/rating bridge at the top of the movement frame will be between 25,000 and 71,000.

    NOTE: The Atmos IV was introduced about March 1954 and production was co-mingled with the last Atmos III models right to the end of 1954, when both the Atmos III and Atmos IV were supplanted by the Atmos V. The lowest serial number Atmos IV in my data is 60764, highest is 69374.

    The above characteristics are unique to the Atmos III models. There are other technical details as well but I've not listed those since they aren't visible on a casual basis.

    Please advise any questions.

    John Hubby
    >>>>

    Hi John,

    In addition to the above charateristics listed I would like to add another that can be used to visually detect a calibre 519 movement and this relates to the width of the movement plate.

    The calibre 519 movement plate measures 50mm wide. The Atmos Caibre 522 also has similar movement width. When view from the front a small arc of the first wheel can be seen on the right, also this movement plate is much wider than the intermediate plate found in front of it. ( see picture of a calibre 522 movement below).

    Judging from the picture shown in GB's post, the width of the movement of his clock appears to be narrower than the 519 since the width of the movement plate is about the same as the intermediate plate and moreover a wider arc of the first wheel is visible suggesting the movement may not be calibre 519.

    It would be helpful if GB can measure and let us know the width of the movement plate of his clock.
    It is quite possible the plate of his clock measures 45mm wide.

    Mun C.W.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Amos Cal 522.jpg   Atmos 70781.jpg  

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Atmos Clock Identification (RE: MUN CHOR-WENG)

    Hello again,

    I measured the movement plate and it is actually 44mm with a micrometer.

    Thanks
    GB

  9. #9

    Default Re: Atmos Clock Identification (RE: lifeisgud71)

    GB,

    Thanks for providing the measurement of the width of the movement plate of your Atmos. It confirms the movemnnt is not calibre 519.

    A number of documented examples have shown that in the early days of the Amos production by JLC the transition of one model to another is not clearcut resulting in clocks having features of the two transition models. In the case of your clock it has many features of the calilbre 519 model, fitted with a movement of a later calibre having a narrower movement plate.

    Mun C.W.

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    Default Re: Atmos Clock Identification (RE: MUN CHOR-WENG)

    Hello Mun C. W.

    Do all calibre 519's have movement plates 50mm wide?
    If so, what would be my calibre model?

    Thanks GB

  11. #11

    Default Re: Atmos Clock Identification (RE: lifeisgud71)

    Quote Originally Posted by lifeisgud71 View Post
    Hello Mun C. W.

    Do all calibre 519's have movement plates 50mm wide?
    If so, what would be my calibre model?

    Thanks GB

    GB,

    In " Living On Air", Lebet listed three movement plate sizes that cover all the Atmos models made by JLC up to 1983 when the new calibre 540 was introduced. These three plates can easily be identified by sight.

    The widest 59mm movement plate is found in the Atmos II which was not given any calibre number. This plate can be identified by looking from the front of the movement as the wide plate completely obscures the first wheel ( see left picture below, click on picture to get an enlarged view).

    Next the 50mm plate movement is found in the calibre 519 as well as the calibre 522. Here only a small arc of the first wheel can be seen.
    From existing available data all calibre 519 and calibre 522 movements have 50mm movement plate (see centre picture of calibre 522).The 522 has a unique satin finish and is sometimes called the 'tuxedo' model.

    Finally the 45mm movement plate. These can be found in the following calibre: 529, 532, 526, 528 and 528/1. Atmos with movements of this plate width have the longest production run, from 1955 to 1983 and most of the used Atmos found on the market have this movement plate size. The picture on the right shows a 1966 Atmos Vendome model fitted with a calibre 526 movement. Notice a larger arc of the first wheel can be clearly seen. To correctly identify the calibre in this group of clocks with 45mm plate one needs to refer to other characteristics listed in Lebet's book.

    Your clock with the 44mm wide movement plate is rather unusual
    and it could be among the eariest batch of the narrow plate movement made around the time when JLC was phasing out the 519 and the 522.

    Using the criteria listed in page 51 in Lebet's book, your clock has all the attributes to be classified as calibre 529 though it shares some of the characteristcs of the Atmos fitted with the 519 movement.

    I must say you've got a rare model.


    Mun C.W.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Atmos II.jpg   Amos Cal 522.jpg   Atmos 526.jpg  
    Last edited by MUN CHOR-WENG; 10-04-2008 at 12:10 PM.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Atmos Clock Identification (RE: MUN CHOR-WENG)

    Thank you very much John Hubby and Mun Chor-Weng for your enlightening and professional responses.

    Garry Boylan

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Atmos Clock Identification (RE: lifeisgud71)

    Mun, thanks for posting the differences in plate dimensions between calibre numbers. I would like to amplify on what you have posted.

    Firstly, even though in "Living on Air" it states that no calibre number was assigned to the movements used for the Atmos II, in fact these movements are physically identical to the calibre 30"A used for the Atmos I, the main difference being the escapement fork. Although I have not made a comprehensive test I have been able to interchange parts between calibre 30"A movements and the Atmos II movements without problems.

    Secondly, you did not mention that the calibre 529 is Atmos III. Atmos III clocks included both the 50 mm wide plate (calibre 519) and the 45 mm wide plate (calibre 529). From my data the calibre 519 was made first starting in June 1950, and the calibre 529 was introduced in late 1954 and continued to about mid-1955 when the calibre 526 Atmos V was being developed. I believe that GB's clock is a calibre 529 Atmos III, even though there seems to be a 1 mm discrepancy in the measurement of the plate.

    Similarly, the calibre 522 Atmos IV with 50 mm wide plate changed to calibre 532 with a 45 mm wide plate at the same time the Atmos III was changed from calibre 519 to calibre 529. All this coincided with the introduction of the calibre 526 Atmos V, as reported in "Living on Air" in a discussion about commercial production of the Atmos V which was realized in June 1955:
    At the same time, the models ATMOS III (calibre 519) and ATMOS IV (calibre 522) continued to exist but were henceforth fitted with calibres 529 and 532 which were rationalised in relation to calibre 526.
    In other words, when JLC started making movement frames for the Atmos V, they decided to use the same 45 mm wide frame design for continuing production of the Atmos III and Atmos IV, simply changing the caliber identification to 529 and 532 respectively.

    As has been discussed elsewhere it seems that the transitions between models of the Atmos has generally included some degree of overlap and even "merging" of parts between the models, the transition from Atmos III/Atmos IV to the Atmos V being one of the messiest.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Atmos Clock Identification (RE: John Hubby)

    Hello and Good day,

    I just picked up a new digital caliper and remeasured the sub-frame.
    It is precisely 45 mm.

    I guess I will be correct in calling this an early calibre model 529.

    Thanks
    GB

  15. #15

    Default Re: Atmos Clock Identification (RE: lifeisgud71)

    Quote Originally Posted by lifeisgud71 View Post
    Hello and Good day,

    I just picked up a new digital caliper and remeasured the sub-frame.
    It is precisely 45 mm.

    I guess I will be correct in calling this an early calibre model 529.

    Thanks
    GB
    Hello Garry Boylan,

    Thank you for confirming the measurement that I had mentioned in an earlier post.
    Yes your Atmos is certainly an early calibre model 529.

    The task of identifying the calibre number of Atmos made from 1953 onwards was made easier when JLC introduced the practice of stamping the caliber number on to the movement plate. The picture below shows a stamping on a caliber 522 model. The location of the stamping is found at the bottom end of the inner movement plate located behind the six o’clock position, which is not easily spotted unless one looks for it carefully.
    Take a good look at your clock again Garry, to see if there is any calibre number stamped at that spot. If there is one, it was quite possible you might have missed spotting it previously due to its inconspicuous location.

    In 1983, the stamping of the Atmos calibre number was moved to a more visible spot on the front plate - a practice that is continued to the present. This makes it easy to identify the calibre number of those Atmos models with open face configuration such as the Anniversary Atmos calibre 540 and the Atlantis Atmos calibre 584.

    When looking at one of the recent commemorative Atmos models, the Marc Newson Atmos ( named after the designer) made to mark the 175 annivesary of Jaeger LeCoultre’s founding as well as the 80th anniversary of the Atmos, one cannot miss noticing the number 561 which is the caliber number, boldly written on the front as well as on the back of the movement. Officially this model is also known as the Atmos 561, produced in a limited edition of 888 units.



    Mun C.W.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Cal 522.jpg   cal 540.JPG   cal 548.jpg   IMG_1653.jpg   IMG_1658-1.jpg  


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