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  1. #1

    Default How Rare is Rare, Howard Pocket Watch

    Hello,

    I have absolutely zero knowledge about pocket watches and am hoping someone on the message board that has passion and great knowledge about Howard pocket watches might help.
    I found this very old pocket watch in an estate that I just bought.
    I did find some information about the watch but I have not really been able to determine the model.
    Here is what I can read with a magnifiying glass....

    E.Howard Watch Co.
    2277
    Boston,USA
    Pat D 21

    At the botton there is an arrow that runs through a circled star. There is also the letter V beneath this.

    From a website I think this dates it 1860-1861 where 1,200 of these were made?

    Unfortunately one of the hands is missing from the main dial and the secondary has no hands. Also, the glass cover is missing.

    It is encased in 14k white gold, Keystone 203760.

    I don't think I will hold onto this watch as I have no emotional tie to it but was wondering if I should try and have it repaired before selling?

    I truly appreciate all responses as I love learning about new things!

    Thank you,
    Karen

  2. #2
    Registered user. IMHO's Avatar
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    Default Re: How Rare is Rare, Howard Pocket Watch (RE: kibold)

    The key here is the patent date on your watch which makes it a Keystone-Howard, made in the 1920's. The new company for whatever reason started a new number series for these 10 size watches - the Price Guide by Shugart states that the numbers srtarted at around 1,001 in 1921.

    So this one is not the rarity you'd hope for a Hoawrd Series II made in 1860 or so and numbered in the 2,200 range.

    Dave
    Dave Chaplain
    "Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig two graves." -- Confucius

  3. #3
    Registered User
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    Default Re: How Rare is Rare, Howard Pocket Watch (RE: kibold)

    series II Howards are KW and gilt

    Keystone Howards are nickel, SW and 16s or less

  4. #4

    Default Re: How Rare is Rare, Howard Pocket Watch (RE: kibold)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon
    series II Howards are KW and gilt

    Keystone Howards are nickel, SW and 16s or less
    Thank you so much for the information. The case is stamped Keystone 14k.

  5. #5

    Default Re: How Rare is Rare, Howard Pocket Watch (RE: kibold)

    Quote Originally Posted by kibold
    Quote Originally Posted by Jon
    series II Howards are KW and gilt

    Keystone Howards are nickel, SW and 16s or less
    Thank you so much for the information. The case is stamped Keystone 14k.
    If I posted a picture maybe someone could help me identify?

  6. #6

    Default Re: How Rare is Rare, Howard Pocket Watch (RE: kibold)

    I forgot to mention the inside of the case is stamped White Gold, Guaranteed 14k, 585 Fine, The W.C. Co.

    Also, there is a very, very fine inscription inside the case that has the following; 34056H and B10088?4154. It's very faint and very hard to see with just a magnifying glass, I guess I need a loope? Any idea why someone would enscribe this?

  7. #7
    Registered User rrwatch's Avatar
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    Default Re: How Rare is Rare, Howard Pocket Watch (RE: kibold)

    The very fine scratch marks are watchmaker's cleaning marks, placed there to indicate (often only to the watchmaker) that he cleaned the watch and when the service was performed. These marks can be any system that the watchmaker decided to use, often his initials along with a ledger number, an assigned number from the AWCI, or a representation of the date. These marks are usually impossible to trace back to a watchmaker today.
    [edit=88=1202965963]Add Signature[/edit]
    Ed Ueberall
    The Escapement Home Page - Vintage Watch Restoration

  8. #8

    Default Re: How Rare is Rare, Howard Pocket Watch (RE: kibold)

    Quote Originally Posted by rrwatch
    The very fine scratch marks are watchmaker's cleaning marks, placed there to indicate (often only to the watchmaker) that he cleaned the watch and when the service was performed. These marks can be any system that the watchmaker decided to use, often his initials along with a ledger number, an assigned number from the AWCI, or a representation of the date. These marks are usually impossible to trace back to a watchmaker today.
    Thanks Ed, that is very interesting to know.

  9. #9
    Registered user.
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    Default Re: How Rare is Rare, Howard Pocket Watch (RE: kibold)

    Quote Originally Posted by kibold
    Quote Originally Posted by kibold
    Quote Originally Posted by Jon
    series II Howards are KW and gilt

    Keystone Howards are nickel, SW and 16s or less
    Thank you so much for the information. The case is stamped Keystone 14k.
    If I posted a picture maybe someone could help me identify?
    So far (as above) it's a 10-size Keystone Howard
    in a 14K white gold case, probably (low serial number)
    made in 1921 or 1922. These show up regularly on
    eBay, and a 'Howard pocket watch' search would help
    you to identify the movement type with certainty, but
    there's really no doubt.

    The star in the circle indicates a 21-jewel movement.
    The 'V' marking likely means adjusted to 5 positions
    (and usually also temperature).

    You don't say if it's running, but repairs should not be
    difficult. OTOH, it is what it is, and if I owned it and
    were planning to sell it, I'd probably leave that for the
    next owner. Shugart's 'Price Guide', or that eBay
    search will give you some idea of value (we aren't
    permitted to do that here) but it won't go begging.
    .

  10. #10

    Default Re: How Rare is Rare, Howard Pocket Watch (RE: kibold)

    Hi Karen -

    The information others have posted above has given the correct info for the watch, and also NAWCC member Tom McIntyre has some photos of a 21 jewel 10 size Keystone Howard on his webpage at this link ...

    http://awco.org/EHowardWatch/Smaller.../10Size21J.htm

    ... that will give you an image to compare with your watch.

    Fred
    Fred Hansen
    NAWCC #109682

  11. #11
    Registered User
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    Default Re: How Rare is Rare, Howard Pocket Watch (RE: kibold)

    The 10 size 21 J Keystone Howard is a very intersting watch and a very nice item. I second the suggestion to visit Tom's excellent description.

  12. #12

    Default Re: How Rare is Rare, Howard Pocket Watch (RE: kibold)

    Quote Originally Posted by LloydB
    Quote Originally Posted by kibold
    Quote Originally Posted by kibold
    Quote Originally Posted by Jon
    series II Howards are KW and gilt

    Keystone Howards are nickel, SW and 16s or less
    Thank you so much for the information. The case is stamped Keystone 14k.
    If I posted a picture maybe someone could help me identify?
    So far (as above) it's a 10-size Keystone Howard
    in a 14K white gold case, probably (low serial number)
    made in 1921 or 1922. These show up regularly on
    eBay, and a 'Howard pocket watch' search would help
    you to identify the movement type with certainty, but
    there's really no doubt.

    The star in the circle indicates a 21-jewel movement.
    The 'V' marking likely means adjusted to 5 positions
    (and usually also temperature).

    You don't say if it's running, but repairs should not be
    difficult. OTOH, it is what it is, and if I owned it and
    were planning to sell it, I'd probably leave that for the
    next owner. Shugart's 'Price Guide', or that eBay
    search will give you some idea of value (we aren't
    permitted to do that here) but it won't go begging.
    .

    Thank you so much for shedding more light on this pocket watch. It is really interesting to learn from you guys. I especially liked learning about the "v" marking, thank you so much for sharing your knowledge with me.



  13. #13

    Default Re: How Rare is Rare, Howard Pocket Watch (RE: kibold)

    Fred, this is so awesome!!! The link below is exactly what the face of my pocketwatch looks like. Thank you so much~

    Karen




    Quote Originally Posted by Fred
    Hi Karen -

    The information others have posted above has given the correct info for the watch, and also NAWCC member Tom McIntyre has some photos of a 21 jewel 10 size Keystone Howard on his webpage at this link ...

    http://awco.org/EHowardWatch/Smaller.../10Size21J.htm

    ... that will give you an image to compare with your watch.

    Fred

  14. #14

    Default Re: How Rare is Rare, Howard Pocket Watch (RE: kibold)

    I just wanted to thank you all sooo very much for taking the time to help me. Your knowledge is incredible and I am so happy with the information you shared with me! You are all great!!! This website has awesome people here!

    Karen

  15. #15

    Default Re: How Rare is Rare, Howard Pocket Watch (RE: kibold)

    Quote Originally Posted by kibold
    Quote Originally Posted by LloydB
    Quote Originally Posted by kibold
    Quote Originally Posted by kibold
    Quote Originally Posted by Jon
    series II Howards are KW and gilt

    Keystone Howards are nickel, SW and 16s or less
    Thank you so much for the information. The case is stamped Keystone 14k.
    If I posted a picture maybe someone could help me identify?
    So far (as above) it's a 10-size Keystone Howard
    in a 14K white gold case, probably (low serial number)
    made in 1921 or 1922. These show up regularly on
    eBay, and a 'Howard pocket watch' search would help
    you to identify the movement type with certainty, but
    there's really no doubt.

    The star in the circle indicates a 21-jewel movement.
    The 'V' marking likely means adjusted to 5 positions
    (and usually also temperature).

    You don't say if it's running, but repairs should not be
    difficult. OTOH, it is what it is, and if I owned it and
    were planning to sell it, I'd probably leave that for the
    next owner. Shugart's 'Price Guide', or that eBay
    search will give you some idea of value (we aren't
    permitted to do that here) but it won't go begging.
    .

    Thank you so much for shedding more light on this pocket watch. It is really interesting to learn from you guys. I especially liked learning about the "v" marking, thank you so much for sharing your knowledge with me.

    There is one exception to the Keystone Howard’s regarding nickel finish. The only gilt Keystone Howard is the Edward Howard. This watch is a very special with 23 jewels, free sprung, and 16 size with matching serial numbers on the special 18K case and movement. Approximately three hundred were produced starting with serial number 50. Needless to say theses are very rare. If you happen across one make sure you take your bank account.

    Ron

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