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  1. #16

    Default Re: Junghans bracket clock (RE: harold bain)

    Harold:

    I have on my shopping list MOST of the Conover series. In fact, I plan to use my 10% members discount and get them from NAWCC's store, because they will work out cheaper than most of the clock suppliers or EBAY. Once I know what Im doing, I will attempt the barrel repair you describe.


    I'm attaching some pix of a similar Junghans mantle clock that I just bought on EBAY. I paid a bit over $200, but the clock is in super condition for its age, and needed nothing except the correct pendulum (which I am looking for). Movement is marked B10, with the Star with J inside typical Junghans trademark.

    I was delighted to get this clock.

    Best!

    Thumbz
    [edit=6147=1194006129][/edit]
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails DSC01159.JPG   DSC01156.JPG   DSC01157.JPG   DSC01158.JPG   DSC01155.JPG  


  2. #17
    Forums Administrator harold bain's Avatar
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    Default Re: Junghans bracket clock (RE: harold bain)

    Hi, Thumbz. Your movement is similar but not the same as the one I am working on. The difference that I can see is that mine has a separate set of 4 strike hammers on the opposite side of the chime rods. Your case is pretty close to identical (except for the top shape) to this one, as are the chime rods.
    Zep, I wonder if the I in the star may have been a month code for September? If any more turn up with the same year and different letter, that would confirm. This would have likely been among the first clocks manufactured at the end of WW 1, and possibly the first trademark used.
    [edit=795=1194016048][/edit]
    harold bain, Member ch 33
    "If it won't "tick",
    let me "tock" to it"

  3. #18
    Forums Administrator harold bain's Avatar
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    Default Re: Junghans bracket clock (RE: harold bain)

    I also found half a dozen Italian Lira notes in the bottom of this case, with an issue date of 1943. They shall remain with the clock, as my customer, with an obviously Italian name, has had this clock in his family since new
    harold bain, Member ch 33
    "If it won't "tick",
    let me "tock" to it"

  4. #19
    Registered user. jmclaugh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Junghans bracket clock (RE: harold bain)

    Harold,
    I really can't see a maker changing a trademark every month, it would be too much trouble and expense.

    It has been said an A09 code is the first half of 1909 and B21 is the second half of 1921 etc yet you see loads of movements with no code on them and here we have a movement with 1919 on it instead of A or B19.

    I remain puzzled about dating Junghans movements
    Jonathan.

  5. #20
    Forums Administrator harold bain's Avatar
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    Default Re: Junghans bracket clock (RE: harold bain)

    You're right Jonathan. Not likely to be a month code. I wonder how many different factories Junghans would have had operating in the early 1900's, making movements?
    harold bain, Member ch 33
    "If it won't "tick",
    let me "tock" to it"

  6. #21

    Default Re: Junghans bracket clock (RE: harold bain)

    Think that we can be fairly certain that the A and B markings (e.g. A09) are year codes. I believe that Hans-Heinrich Schmid, author of the standard reference (2005) _Lexikon der Deutschen Uhrenindustrie 1850-1980_ has been carrying out research in this area. And we can expect more definite information when the second, revised and enlarged edition of the _Lexikon_ becomes available (it's being worked on now!).

    It's most useful nonetheless when such markings come up -- as with Harold's -- to have a visual record, and I believe this Message Board is the ideal place.

    Regards, Zep

  7. #22
    Forums Administrator harold bain's Avatar
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    Default Re: Junghans bracket clock (RE: harold bain)

    Zep, a light went on in my head as I was driving to a service call. With the Italian provenance with this clock, could the I on the trademark signify it was destined to go to Italy for sale? Or did they possibly have an Italian satellite plant doing assembly?
    The computer age certainly has made research easier, but still many unanswered questions
    harold bain, Member ch 33
    "If it won't "tick",
    let me "tock" to it"

  8. #23

    Default Re: Junghans bracket clock (RE: harold bain)

    Harold, yes, Junghans had what was first an assembly plant, going back to 1878, then by the turn of the century, a manufacturing facility in Venice which, after various name changes, became the Fabbrica d'Orologeria Arturo Junghans Venezia (Giudecca).

    However in the very few Junghans catalogue pages or ads I've seen (I'll attach a copy of one from Kochmann) the same "standard" Junghans J star was used. Krauss has a page from a 1925 Junghans Italian catalogue in which the standard J can be seen, for instance.

    As was noted above, Kochmann has the I-in-star-with-Junghans-with-a-J mark (like on your beastie) as registered in September 1917, and a variant (a box with JUNGHANS within at the top, the star-with-I, as well as a dial) also registered during the Great War, in March 1918. According to K in his unpublished 1986 Ms., "during World War I, Germany and Italy were on opposing sides, and /the/ Venice Junghans operation was under Italian Government receivership. On June 30, 1923, the Italian Government returned the Venice Junghans enterprise...."

    So there is a possibility that at that time, etc.

    However however . A logical way to check such possibilities is to see where the I-Junghans TM was used in ads in this period, and so on. But in my own library my last bound DUZ is for 1916, and the next Uhrmacher-Jahrbuch I have is for 1921 -- and Junghans did not (curses) have an ad in it. The world's finest horological library, our NAWCC Library & Research Center, does have a complete set of the DUZ (along with the Hochschule in Furtwangen). And no doubt the Stadtmuseum in Schramberg would have materials. Yet someone would need to go where they are and go through them.
    [edit=5943=1194095585][/edit]
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Junghans (Venice).jpg  

  9. #24
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    Default Re: Junghans bracket clock (RE: harold bain)

    Harold
    It is vaguely similar to a Junghans I have - unforturately the case succumbed to woodworm years ago.

    You will find that the chime rods are not the usual bronze and sound completely (nicer!) different. The cut in the holder is important, as well.

    AT
    I repair broken barrel hooks same as Harold does; a countersunk 4BA screw, and peen the end on the outside.
    Mike - banned member of the throwaway society.

  10. #25

    Default Re: Junghans bracket clock (RE: harold bain)




    Hello Zep,

    Links to Junghans logo with "I" in star.
    B19
    A20
    A20 Wurttemberg
    B20 Wurttemberg
    A21 Wurttemberg

    Vic
    [edit=45=1194103750][/edit]

  11. #26

    Default Re: Junghans bracket clock (RE: harold bain)

    Thank you Vic, *very* much! Superb photos too. And now we have another variant with that "Württemberg" type. Best regards, Zep.

  12. #27
    Registered User Kevin W.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Junghans bracket clock (RE: harold bain)

    Nice looking Junghans clock.Never saw one with the date on the plate, that is uncommon.I like the style of the case too, i guess the case style was common for that era?
    What did you have to do to this clock Harold?
    One clock at a time. Kevin West
    http://www.global-horology.com/GHMB/

  13. #28
    Forums Administrator harold bain's Avatar
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    Default Re: Junghans bracket clock (RE: harold bain)

    Veritas, the time spring barrel hook was broken, so that was my first repair. Also wasn't striking properly (strike starting before chime ended). One of the levers had an obvious bend in it. Chime correction was not functioning. So, after cleaning (bushings not required), setting up the chime was the most time consuming part, but it is ticking away happily now
    harold bain, Member ch 33
    "If it won't "tick",
    let me "tock" to it"

  14. #29

    Default Re: Junghans bracket clock (RE: harold bain)

    Doug,

    I found a letter dated March 3rd 1920 and a 1920 catalog page with the “I” in the star Junghans trademark.

    Vic

  15. #30

    Default Re: Junghans bracket clock (RE: harold bain)

    Vic --

    This just gets better! Thank you again, very much.

    Past being interesting with regards to the actual trademark, it's also, I think, an excellent example of how this NAWCC Message Board can work so well in horological research, and often does work so well.

    Within just a few days information has come in from around the world -- and is shared around the world -- of interest and use to all.

    Best regards,
    Zep

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