German box clock trademark

[harold bain]

I know I have seen this before, but the board search turned up nothing. On the dial of this clock there is a lion over the initials U M. Anyone recognise this trademark? The movement is unmarked, looks typical for a box clock.

[zepernick]

Hi Harold -- Here's (below) from an earlier response:

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The firm Rup. [for Rupert] Amann Fabrik für Federzug- & Gewicht-Regulateure, of Mülhheim [on the] Donau, in Württemberg, founded in 1867, was sold in 1882 to Reinhold Schnekenburger. It continued as R. Schnekenburger GmbH a.d. Donau -- with the rose with the RSM as a trademark. Then amid financial problems, what by 1900 had become the Uhrenfabrik Mühlheim vorm. [vormals -- earlier known as] R. Schnekenburger was taken over by a creditor, Albert Müller. And on 10 September 1900 (no doubt a semi-sunny day with a touch of rain) became the "Uhrenfabrik Mühlheim, Müller & Co." Indeed.

Now while the name with the rose changed, so-called regulators were made with it from
after 1882 dowm at least to the Great War. But more specifically, the Uhrenfabrik Mühlheim, Müller & Co. continued to use the earlier Schnekenburger rose as a mark -- yet without the M under the stem. There's a full-page ad for example from 1913 (reproduced on page 77 of Kahlert's _Uhren 1913_, available through the NAWCC's Library & Research Center) for the Uhrenfabrik Mühlheim, Müller & Co. which shows two marks, one on either side of the bold "Uhrenfabrik Mühlheim." The first is of their lion with the U.M. underneath. The other is of the rose with an R on one side of the stem, and an S on the other. And they made just about everything -- grandfather clocks and wall clocks and alarms and "loose" good quality movements (which others could stick in cases) and so on. Whew. Regards, Duck.
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[zepernick]

And (for one of our best and most active MB members!) here's the top of that 1913 ad:

[zepernick]

And (so we'll have these on file next time the mark comes up) here's the entry for the Uhrenfabrik Mühlheim (etc.) that appeared in the trademarks section of _Diebeners Uhrmacher-Kalender_ for 1926:

[harold bain]

Yep, that's it, Zep. The search came up with nothing. I should have just looked for your old posts
Many thanks.

[Kevin W.]

Hi Harold.I have a mantel clock with that same trademark.Now i know how old the clock is.Thanks

[Kevin W.]

Hi Harold, i came across a movement with the trademark you mentioned.I believe this one came from a box clock too, it was not marked on the dial though.It has a count wheel under the dial, similar to the one Chris is showing in his thread.
It looks well made but the strike side seems jammed, won,t turn with power on the train or power removed.
I will take a look someday and maybe if lucky, find a case for it too.

[harold bain]

Veritas, the clock I have has no trademark on the movement, just on the dial. It is somewhat similar to Chris's Becker movement.
Sounds like you have a good movement to practice on

[Hayson]

Hi Harold. I bet you weren't expecting to see this thread again I went looking to identify the trademark on a clock and this thread popped up when I searched. I wondered if the one you were working on was anything like mine. Here is a link to a batch in flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/1690150...7607349354008/
I hope that works The clock has more or less been given to me. A couple walked in, asked me how much to fix and I mentioned a ball park figure of 2-3 X the usual cost of an o'haul. The time barrel has had a major disaster and the cover and arbor are missing. The case is in bad order and needs cleaning up and re-finishing. They immediately said "NO! too much, have it for parts"; and went on their way before I could draw breath and try to talk them out of it. I called out that they should think about it and come and get it if they changed their minds.... Now I know there's a bit to be done but the build quality is great and the chimes sound wonderful and I'm very tempted to set about restoring this for myself. What do you reckon?

[harold bain]

It's been a while, Hayson, but if I recall, the one I worked on was a 2 train, bimbam.
I'll look through my files and see if I can locate the customer, and any notes I made.
It sure looks like a high grade movement, worth the effort to restore. These box clocks make excellent sound boards. Should sound great with Westminister

[Hayson]

Thanks Harold. I've got a barrel in my "graveyard" that's almost right, but will never look quite as good as the original. I'm debating whether to adapt it anyway or spend some money getting one of our expert machinist friends to make a new one for me. I'll need to turn up an arbor for it amongst other things. What would you (or any others out there in clock-land) do?

[harold bain]

I'd probably do what you are thinking of doing, try to adapt something from my movement graveyard to fit. Ebay would be a longshot to find a similar movement.
You are lucky that so far your investment is minimal, so you could afford to have some parts made up, and still be ahead value wise.

[Hayson]

Thanks Harold. Yes I'm lucky about the price alright . But I won't touch it until the owners have had a chance to reflect and then I'll ring them to see if they are sure.... I wouldn't mind paying someone to sort it out but I'm pondering whether to have a go myself just to keep my hand in on the stuff I don't usually get involved with. Hmmm.

[Hayson]

I'm re-using this thread in order to keep questions about the muhlheim & muller trademark together. A clock was brought in recently with a lion very similar to the muhlheim mark on the back plate. There are differences between this one and the one I posted a link to on the previous page and also different from the examples Zep posted earlier. Also no UM under the lion. Is this a Muhlheim mark or something else?

[chimeclockfan]

I believe it's still a Muller clock.