Welch, Spring Empress

[Jim D.]

I just pcked up a second Welch, Spring and Company Empress 30 hour clock. It is the one on the left in the photo. Both have vey good labels in them. What I find interesting is the differences in the cases. THe bases are of a different design and the one on the left has columns on it which the right one does not.

The photos are not the best, will post better ones tomorrow when zi have better light.

Any one else find this kind of differences in the same model clocks?

Jim D.

[harold bain]

Jim, your first clock looks like an Italian #1, except the top is not rounded.
Your second looks like a more typical Empress.
If you have Tran's Welch book, you can see what I mean. Must be an uncatalogued variant. Nice looking cases

[Jim D.]

Harold,

I checked the book and you are right, that is what confused me. I also checked the booklet by NAWCC on Welch, Spring and the reference the Empress but do not show one.

I was going to sell one of them but going to have to keep it now. Its going to break my heart, if you know what I mean.

Jim D.

[R. Croswell]

Jim,

Here's a print from the 1878 catalogue. I agree, the one on the left is an Italian. The other image is the Empress that I am currently working on.

Bob


[edit=4372=1180402645][/edit]

[harold bain]

They are also not a lot different from my Peerless VP, especially the Empress VP. May have been a whimsical employee not following the blueprint

[R. Croswell]

Harold,

My catalog shows a couple variations of the Empress V. P. Basically like the Empress shown except they had a clear glass tablet and a fancy pendulum. One version looks like it has a small 3-jar mercury pendulum. Obviously a more expensive version. For vice presidents?

Bob

[harold bain]

Bob, my Peerless has this pendulum, and clear glass. VP=visible pendulum, although Vice Presidents are allowed to own them

[Jim D.]

In 1887 the Italian models switch to the clear glass "VP" and dropped the double door design. I thought the Empress model did the same but it is shown with double doors in the 1880 catalog along with the clear glass model. In the 1885 catalog only the clear glass "VP" model is shown.

According to the NAWCC bulletin on Welch, Spring the Peerless changed case designs and went to a single panel of glass with a "VP" and became 17 1/2" tall instead of the original design of 13 1/2" tall with a lower tablet. It also stated production stoped in 1888 for the Peerless and Empress models. The Italian model stopped in 1884 when Welch, Spring was closed.

What I find interesting is the variations of these three models. According to NAWCC bulletin the first two years Welch, Spring was in business they made 16 different variations of the Peerless, Empress and Italian clocks.

Jim D.

[R. Croswell]

Jim,

My 1878 catalogue shows the Empress V.P. with the one piece door. The 1885 catalogue shows it with the two piece door. Well nothing like adding confusion to the issue. I would have thought that the newer model would have had the one piece door.

The Peerless V. P. is shown with a one piece door in both catalogues, but in '85 it is shown with decoration around the edge of the clear glass, where in '78 the glass is shown plain. The '78 shows the 3-jar mercury pendulum. The '85 shows a different fancy pendulum.

Bob C.

[Jim D.]

Bob,

Confusion is good sometimes, we can learn from it!

I found reference to rosewood columns and gold gilt being used the first couple of years by Welch, Spring on the Italian and Empress models in the bulletin .

I know Welch, Spring and E N Welch clock companies were interconnected, in fact all movements were made by E N Welch. I do find it interesting they were both selling the same clock while both companies were in operation. Sense E N W made the VP model of the Empress meybe W, S made only the double door? The 1885 catalog showing both style would then make sense because E N W would have used up the remaining case parts after W,S closed in 1884.

Does the Empress you are working on have a label to ID it?

Jim D.

[R. Croswell]

Jim,

My label is really bad and mostly missing. If the model name was on the label, that part is gone. I'm not sure if they put the model name on the main label, and there is no other label. Mine did have gilt on the parts that are white in the picture. The movement has the club-foot escapement. It was a "basket case" when I got it. The paper face and hands are replacements. I have the movement in good shape , but as you can see, I have a long way to go on the case.

Bob

[Jim D.]

Bob,

Case does not look that bad, coming along nicely. The label I was looking for would have been inside the door and was the manufactures label. E N Welch or Welch, Spring and Co. I have never seen a label with the model name on a case from Welch, Spring that I can remember.

Just a thought.

Jim D.