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  1. #16

    Default Illinois private-labels (By: Fred Hansen)

    Fred,

    As I recall, I passed along info on a number of private label Illinois mvts to Russ Snyder some time ago. Do you have access to Russ' data?

  2. #17

    Default Illinois private-labels (By: Fred Hansen)

    JP -

    Hard to say, without contacting the family I don't know how you could really go about finding out for sure. Either way the photo has a long-standing connection to the watch and is a part of it's history ... nice to see that it has been left as it is and not destroyed.

    Before your watch, I was aware of three different 18 size Illinois with "President" markings. These are ...

    "President, NY", grade 103, about 1880
    "President", grade 103, about 1880 (one of these was pictured here on the MB just last week)
    "The President", grade 65, mid-1890's

    ... and of these your watch (grade 61) sounds very similar to the grade 65's I have seen and is only a few thousand serial numbers away.

    Greg -

    Russ sent me a good amount of data and any of the watches pictured in the IL database I will have, but I am not sure if yours were there with it. Anything you would have posted here, to the 149 board, or to VP Tom McIntyre's board I also will probably already have. When you have the chance and if you are willing to send a few along again, I can check and see if I have them recorded. Thanks and hope to make and see you at the Denver regional this year!

    Fred
    Fred Hansen
    NAWCC #109682

  3. #18

    Default Illinois private-labels (By: Fred Hansen)

    #301794-R. H. Trask, Ottawa, Ill.
    #1239743-H. G. & J. E. Wagner (missing barrel bridge)

  4. #19

    Default Illinois private-labels (By: Fred Hansen)

    Thanks Greg.

    Had both of those, but did not have the missing barrel bridge noted for the second number.

    Fred
    Fred Hansen
    NAWCC #109682

  5. #20

    Default Illinois private-labels (By: Fred Hansen)

    Fred, Have seen and logged the following two 18S dials to fit a model 6:

    E. N. Wehrle Punxsutawney, PA (yes, the home of the infamous groundhog), SS bold arabic dial.

    Frisch Bros, Buffalo, NY, SS, RN dial.

    Also have 16 size model 5, sn 1,966,498. Dial is SS, arabic labeled Carl Rivinius, Ebensburg, Penna.

    Tom

  6. #21

    Default Illinois private-labels (By: Fred Hansen)

    A pal had this one for sale at the De Anza
    mart today.
    #2610735 T. Lundy / San Francisco
    on mv't only- Illinois dial
    -Cort

  7. #22

    Default Illinois private-labels (By: Fred Hansen)

    Thanks Cort -

    Have recorded two other PL in this run ... a Hunn Watch Co., Detroit ("Hunn Special" DS dial) at 2610708 and Geo E. Bisanar, Hickory NY (DS plain/unsigned dial) at 2610749.

    I find it interesting how often I am seeing these jeweler contract watches in very close serial proximity but with different names. Looks like the batches for a given jeweler within the run really were often very small.

    Also have a "T. Lundy" serial number that was given to me for a private-label 21J Sangamo Special grade at about this same time. Don't think I've seen a Sangamo Special PL other than this ...

    Fred
    Fred Hansen
    NAWCC #109682

  8. #23

    Default Illinois private-labels (By: Fred Hansen)

    Tom -

    Was the model 5 you gave a serial number for marked on the movement as well, or was it a dial-only PL marking?

    Thanks,
    Fred
    Fred Hansen
    NAWCC #109682

  9. #24

    Default Illinois private-labels (By: Fred Hansen)

    Fred, For the model 5, the PL marking was for the dial only. I bought the watch because I have worked in the town of Ebensburg, PA for over 30 years. Now, I have since begun to do some research on the jeweler, Carl Rivinius. I have talked with his grandaughter, and know the location of the old store which was in business from 1880 till 1962. Now to get time to get to the historical society for more research.

    Tom

  10. #25

    Default Illinois private-labels (By: Fred Hansen)

    Fred,
    Thanks again for continuing to develop your private label data base. It is very helpful to me.

    I am not sure I previously posted the two following
    p.l. grade 65E Ill movements and dials.
    In case I failed to do so here they are:
    (1) #1233244 15j 18 size marked Adj model 6 movement and dial
    marked Frank J. Viorol, Ft. Wayne, Ind.
    (2) #1203540 15j 18 size marked Adj to heat and cold and
    position (not positions) model 6 movement and
    dial marked F, H. Hopkins & Co. Chillicothe, Ohio.

  11. #26

    Default Illinois private-labels (By: Fred Hansen)

    Fred,
    Do you show any other gr65's in the serial
    range #1203,501-1203600. Ill book does not
    show a model 6 as my previous #1203540. There
    apparently is some discrepancy... it lists only
    lever set and also model 4.I guess it should
    now list L&P 3,4,6 in range #1203501-1203600?

  12. #27

    Default Illinois private-labels (By: Fred Hansen)

    Thanks Bernie!

    I unfortunately do not have anything noted in the same 100 block as the F.H. Hopkins.

    Near to the Frank Voirol I have 1233210 noted as marked for W.D. Heath, Lakeport NH and 1233274 noted as marked for A.E. Rogers, Scranton PA but do not have model info for these.

    I have noticed intermixing of models 3, 4, and 6 among other blocks of grade 65 though ... and wonder if there was any organization by serial number to this or if it is almost random within the run? Sure makes it difficult to come up with accurate production figure estimates by model ...

    Fred
    Fred Hansen
    NAWCC #109682

  13. #28

    Default Illinois private-labels (By: Fred Hansen)

    Another private label Illinois:

    18s Illinois nickel 5th pinion with Chalmer's
    regulator serial number 273338. W. Richmond
    on plate, Mt Morris NY on mainspring bridge.
    W. Richmond on dial

  14. #29

    Default Illinois private-labels (By: Fred Hansen)

    Thanks all for the continued help!

    I am still recording these so all contributions are welcome and much appreciated.

    Fred
    Fred Hansen
    NAWCC #109682

  15. #30

    Default Illinois private-labels (By: Fred Hansen)

    #1970481- "Landis Watch Co." on mv't, "Landis" on the dial
    #1996740-"August Loch/ Pittsburgh" on dial only
    12s htg.

    I saw these at the flea today. both were missing stuff and I didn't buy them. Still, for the record...

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