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  1. #1

    Default Illinois private-labels

    I've been recording data on Illinois Watch Co. private-labels for a few years now and want to ask here for help with this project.

    I'm interested in the markings and serial numbers of all 16 and 18 size Illinois with anything different than the usual Illinois factory markings on the movement. I'm also interested in the dial markings for these watches.

    Since this is a large-scale project, to keep from being overwhelmed there are a few types of Illinois private-labels I'm not recording. These are ...

    - Watches marked with a private-label on just the dial

    - Santa Fe or Burlington Watch Co. marked watches (*** with one exception, I am interested in Burlingtons signed "21 Ruby Jewels")

    - 12 size and smaller watches


    All others are of interest and any info is much appreciated, either posted here or sent to me by email at fhansen21@yahoo.com

    Thanks in advance!!!

    Fred
    Last edited by Fred Hansen; 09-13-2008 at 01:28 PM.
    Fred Hansen
    NAWCC #109682

  2. #2

    Default Illinois private-labels (By: Fred Hansen)

    Fred,
    Another private label Illinois you
    may be interested in:
    Movement: 18 size HN 2L 13 Jewel
    (marked 13 Jewel on the barrel
    bridge) 12 and 13 jewels on the
    on the center wheel. Have you
    ever seen this 13 jeweling
    configuration before.?
    Movement also Marked,C.E Searl
    Merrill,Wis> Ser#1247347 Grade 99.
    Dial:biggrin:SGERN Marked C.E.Searl.

    bernie

  3. #3

    Default Illinois private-labels (By: Fred Hansen)

    fred how about sears watches

  4. #4
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    Default Illinois private-labels (By: Fred Hansen)

    Saved this for you Fred.

    Movement-ADJUSTED, 21 RUBY JEWELS, 1299515, SAFETY PINION, SOUTHERN RAILROAD SPECIAL"
    1299515

    Dial-CASTLEBERG'S NATIONAL JEWELRY COMPANY - WASHINGTON D.C .


    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA%3AIT&rd=1

    Auctions over, and Reserve price NOT met
    Henry Burgell
    Chapters 149, 15

  5. #5

    Default Illinois private-labels (By: Fred Hansen)

    Bernie -

    Very interesting watch and thanks for sharing it.

    I do not think I have heard of nor seen any 13J watch with this jeweling configuration or marked as to jewel count. The closest thing that comes to mind is a 16 size private-label Getty model that passed through eBay some time back and was marked "12 jewel" and was jeweled on the upper side of the center wheel. Will check my notes this evening and post what that was, from memory I believe the jeweler it was marked for was out of New York state.

    Doc Ron -

    Yes. Of course the early RW Sears marked watches are much more interesting and significant to me than the common mid-grades of the 1890's, but I am recording each.

    Henry -

    Thanks for the link ... I already had this one but much appreciate your interest and passing this along. I have also seen this Southern RR Special marking in the 18 size HC 21J Bunn Special, an 18 size 17J HC grade 65, and a 16 size HC grade 175. They are an interesting watch and I believe (and have always heard) that the Castleberg's dial is correct to them.

    I think I catch most of what passes through eBay, but if there is a watch that is not well listed (one day auction, out of category, in a lot with multiple others, etc.) then there is a much better chance that I will not have seen it. Either way though better to get an email for one I have already seen than to miss it!

    Fred
    Fred Hansen
    NAWCC #109682

  6. #6
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    Default Illinois private-labels (By: Fred Hansen)

    another "No. 65" 17J OF #2462745 TT

  7. #7

    Default Illinois private-labels (By: Fred Hansen)

    Fred,
    A few more private label Illinois watch
    That I don't recall seeing mentioned.
    I hope these are helpful to you

    16 size
    _______
    #1152787 Grade 114 Mvmt and dial marked
    Menger Bros. and Wagner, Balt, Md.
    #1043899 Grade 113 Mvmt only marked
    Schmidt & Feinstein,Lebanon, Pa.
    #1167589 Grade 112 mvmt and dial marked
    Geo O. Warren, Scaymore, Ill.
    #1049550 Grade ll6 16 j Marked Adjusted.
    Dial only marked Proctor Bros.,Iowa
    Falls,Ia. double sunk log numerals.

    bernie

  8. #8

    Default Illinois private-labels (By: Fred Hansen)

    Jon -

    Much appreciated. Will put a post to 149 in the next few minutes on what I have in the vicinity of the numbers you posted there.

    Bernie -

    Thank you again. One question though ... I had a grade 113 Schmidt & Feinstein in my notes at 1045899 as listed to eBay in February. Could this be the same watch and one of us have the 4th digit incorrect? Thanks again,

    Fred
    Fred Hansen
    NAWCC #109682

  9. #9
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    Default Illinois private-labels (By: Fred Hansen)

    FH,

    Have many more which I shall post on the 149 MB as time permits or after a BV visit!

    JH

  10. #10

    Default Illinois private-labels (By: Fred Hansen)

    Fred,

    1043899 Schmidt & Feinstein is the some as found on ebay.I have tried not to post duplications.
    The following 16 size getty model private labels watches I don't recall seeing on ebay or in Meggers book section on private labels.

    16 size:
    #1609004 15J grade 173 model 4 mvmt and dial marked Ben Schneider
    Jewerlery Co. Cincinnati, Ohio.
    #1302776 17J Grade 174 model Mvmt and dial marked R.Pinkstone,
    Philadelphia,Pa.
    #1301263 11J grade 171 Mvmt and dial marked A.W.& H>A> Reieman
    McKeesport,Pa.
    Any specifics on respective dials or damaskeen patterns I Will be
    happy to answer on request

    16 size Stewart Special:
    I know you have Stewart Specials However I would like to know
    I any one has seen a 16 size Stewart Special with a double sunk
    dial marked in the center Illinois Stewart Special, and 19 Jewels adjusted in
    the center sunk area marked just above the second hands dial curved
    around the top of the second hands dial.

    bernie

  11. #11

    Default Illinois private-labels (By: Fred Hansen)

    Fred,
    A few more for PL data base That I have not
    seen before.

    18 size:

    #1233244 15J Grade 65 model 6 marked adjusted.
    Mvmt and dial marked Frank J. Voirol,
    Ft, Wayne Ind.
    This next one I discussed with Bill Meggers
    a decade or more ago . So its possible Russ
    has recorded this from Bill's data base.
    #1051455 15J grade 65-S Model 4 (Pendant set)
    marked Keystone Watch Case Co. Checkerboard
    T.T. pattern. The Jewel settings maybe gold
    I never had them tested.
    Dial is double sunk fancy G.E fancy roman
    numerals marked in old english K.K.C.Co.

    bernie

  12. #12

    Default Illinois private-labels (By: Fred Hansen)

    Fred,
    Sorry I made a mistake on Keystone Watch
    case Co. Dial the initials are KWCCo.

    bernie

  13. #13
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    Default Illinois private-labels (By: Fred Hansen)

    I listed one like BL's on the 149 MB!

  14. #14
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    Default Illinois private-labels (By: Fred Hansen)

    "S R & Co./Special/Chicago,U.S.A." nickel, OF, 17J, adjusted, #1709505, DS matching Arabic upright numerials dial.

  15. #15
    JP
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    Default Illinois private-labels (By: Fred Hansen)

    Hi Fred,
    Sorry I don't own many PL but here is one that might interest you. Dial is marked "C. Wm. Stentzel Brooklyn" DS, RN with red 5 minute markers. Movement is SN# 1252406 marked "The President", 17 Jewels, Adjusted, Illinois Watch Co., Springfield, Chalmers 12.19.82. The cas has the Initials "CWS" and has a photo copied on the back dust cover.I noticed that the Illinois book lists an Stentzel & Son, C. Wm. (Ca 1915) Since the serial number on this watch is approximately 1894 could the picture of this beautiful young lady be Mrs. Stentzel?
    John Perez

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