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  1. #1
    chasbaz
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    Default English Long Case Clock

    If the clock is really of the time that Phil says we really must see pictures of it! Longcase clocks of this date are very rare and valuable and it should definitely NOT be refinished, but any essential case repairs should be done by an expert.

    chasbaz

  2. #2
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    Default English Long Case Clock (RE: chasbaz)

    Hi Karyn
    As Chasbaz says, don't do anything to the case without an expert opinion. It is very unlikely that it strikes on the half-hour - this was a continental idea.
    Really looking forward to seeing pictures of it - it it is a late 17th c clock it is very desirable and valuable!

    Keep ticking
    Mike
    Mike - banned member of the throwaway society.

  3. #3
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    Default English Long Case Clock (RE: chasbaz)

    Mike
    Your right- I have never seen an 18th Century British Longcase clock with 1/2 hour strike. I am looking forward to seeing some photos of the case, dial and movement. We should be able to tell the owner what he has.

    Frank Menez

    PS lived in the UK for ten years. Seen a lot of longcase clocks

  4. #4
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    Default English Long Case Clock (RE: chasbaz)

    This clock appears to be Circa 1700, however some close up photos of the dial and movement is needed

    The hands appear to be replacements. The hour hand looks to be a mid 18th century hand. The minute hand extends beyound the minute circle.
    A close up of the spandrels is needed to show whether there are female or male heads.
    How many hood pillars. Two or four
    A closer photo of the movement pillar
    is needed.

    The lenticle glass on the trunk places the case in the 1700 period.

    The dial would fall into the 1700 period

    Frank Menez

    PS It can be difficult to evaluate a clock without actualy seeing it, thats why good photos are necessary.

  5. #5

    Default English Long Case Clock (RE: chasbaz)

    Interesting clock. The minute markers are very large for 1700--I would have thought from the dial this was at least 1720. Also, there appear to be only four pillars, not five as one might expect from 1700. The twist columns on the hood might indicate an early period but it's not a count wheel strike--so perhaps the movement is later? The spandrels seem early--1700 could be correct for them perhaps. I have a clock by Thomas Lomas of Poolton from 1730 or so that has an almost identical dial.

  6. #6
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    Default English Long Case Clock (RE: chasbaz)

    The fact that the movement has only four pillars is a good indication that prhaps we should move the date of the clock upwards from 1700 to 1720.

    The movement pillars look to be very early 18th Century.
    The spandels Circa 1715-20

    The winding hole rings are an indication of an early 18th Century clock

    Other clues to date would be the type of wheel collets, trunk door shape (top).
    Thanks for the photos Phil

    Frank Menez

    [This message was edited by Frank Menez on February 09, 2004 at 3:29.]

  7. #7
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    Default English Long Case Clock (RE: chasbaz)

    FWIW, I would put it at about 1710/20

    Quote:I misspelled the town in my first message it is Barthmoley

    The spelling of the placename on the dial is Barthomley (!)
    This is a village near Crewe, in Cheshire; country clocks lagged the London fashions, a point to be remembered when dating.
    Phil's research on the maker could support this.

    Keep ticking
    Mike
    Mike - banned member of the throwaway society.

  8. #8

    Default English Long Case Clock (RE: chasbaz)

    Being a provincial clock, I would say a lot of the dating could slide a few years forward.

    Early Clockmakers of Great Britain, Loomes, gives a birth date of 1656 and died April, 1743, aged 87. He worked Barthomley and Namptwich (sic) (Nantwich).

    It looks like a count wheel strike to me. The countwheel is mounted on the strike side great wheel.

    Cheers, Ralph

    [This message was edited by Ralph on February 09, 2004 at 15:05.]

  9. #9

    Default English Long Case Clock (RE: chasbaz)

    Just found this...

    BHI Site

    It also looks like the fifth pillar was removed from Karyn's movement.

    Ralph

  10. #10
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    Default English Long Case Clock (RE: chasbaz)

    Ralph

    As you are aware Provincial clock style continued long after London clocks changed styles. Without a detailed inspection it is difficult to date these clocks. Since the maker was born in 1656 I wonder when he made his first clock-end of 17th Century He died in 1743. What date would you say the clock was made?
    PS Without a detailed inspection it is easy to come to the wrong conclusion.

    Frank

  11. #11

    Default English Long Case Clock (RE: chasbaz)

    Alan Treherne (sp?) wrote an article or published book on Nantwich makers. Maybe someone has it handy. It sounds like Smith ended up in Nantwich, so it might be interesting to know when.
    That may give a clue. I expect he signed his dials Nantwich at that point.

    I don't have a problem with the 1720 timeframe.

    It's all speculation.

    Cheers, Ralph

  12. #12
    chasbaz
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    Default English Long Case Clock (RE: chasbaz)

    Hi, been missing all this
    I agree, for what it's worth, that the minutes look a bit large for 1700. However, the case looks to be 1695-1700. If it has convex mouldings under the hood it is unlikely to be any later than 1710. The collets look more like 1720->. So there are a few anomalies, partly explainable by the fact that this is a provincial clock. It's also possible that the case is older than the movement and dial. It has an internal countwheel I think, which normally would be up to about 1710 but it may be preferred by this maker and be later. So I think I'd go with the advice and talk to a Cheshire clock specialist, perhaps contacting a local museum.

    chasbaz

  13. #13

    Default English Long Case Clock (RE: chasbaz)

    Karyn,

    As you know, Alan Treherne, was gracious in responding to my inquiry and was very helpful in supplying some additional information about Gabriel Smith. Alan is a well known horologist and researcher in England and among his other accomplishments authored a catalogue in 1985 for the Nantwich Museum celebrating clockmakers from Nantwich and surrounding environs. Alan lives less than 10 miles from the small village of Barthomley. Alan also owns a Gabriel Smith clock.

    Quoting from his note:

    "As you will see from the attached files, it is likely that the clock concerned was made aroung 1720 to 1722 (when Gabriel left Barthomley for Nantwich). He used the earlier cherub spandrels with the large crown (as in the 4 train clock illustrated, and my clock, which you may remember), around 1710 - and I am not convinced that he made any long case clocks before that date. The movement of the Parsons clock is very similar to mine, with very distinctive Smith features - especially the screwing of the pillars into the backplate, with one or two pillars removed (probably by Victorian repairers - I had to make a new pillar for mine, which had only 5 of the original 6 when I bought it), the inside locking plate striking, and the shape of the bell (as far as I can see from the photograph).

    Britten's date of 1695 must come from his early dating of a clock he had seen. No one seemed to have had any documentary evidence on this Smith family until the work I did in the 1970s, and Brian Loomes' information came from me."

    Alan has sent me images and text from his catalog. I can host them, if there is interest in reviewing them.

    He may have additional copies of the catalog available for purchase, if there is interest, he can bring them to the states for mailing next month. Let me know.

    Ralph

    [This message was edited by Ralph on February 11, 2004 at 18:06.]

  14. #14

    Default English Long Case Clock (RE: chasbaz)

    Phil', Am I doing something wrong? or is it my PC playing up?. Your Pic's and posted "Family Tree" just show up as little Red squares on my screen and I can't open them. Regards, Ged.

  15. #15

    Default English Long Case Clock (RE: chasbaz)

    Alan,

    You did not provide an email address.

    Ralph

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