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  1. #16
    Registered user. gleber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Colonial of Zeeland 1977 Grandmother Clock (By: KPMcCulley)

    Quote Originally Posted by KPMcCulley View Post
    Great! I'll try this later this evening. As for doing proper service, I've browsed some of the listed techniques.. What I fear is re-assembly. Do you know of an exploded view of this movement? I can see just from the work that I've done today that some parts have to be put in before others can be..

    KPM
    Yes, there are a lot of parts on a chime/strike movement. The one advantage is that most of the adjustments are made via cams that are held by screws, so when you assemble the wheels in the plates, you do not need to worry about synchronizing them and can do that once the movement is assembled (usually you do need to synchronize the strike wheel so that it is not in the middle of a lift and there is a little free play when the train is stopped). I found that the key for me was to work on simpler movements to gain some experience, and I like to draw the movement before I disassemble to completely understand it. The drawing doesn't need to be a masterpiece, just enough to uniquely identify each wheel and locate stop pins, etc. I know a lot of other people recommend photos, but I like to draw since it forces me to look at each wheel and lever carefully, so it helps me understand the operation better. Another option instead of working on simple movements, is to just work on one train at a time. You will have to disassemble and reassemble several times, but you gain experience and confidence each time. Start with just the time, reassemble and test to make sure it works. Then do just the chime or strike, etc.

    Example drawing:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Tom

  2. #17
    Registered user. KPMcCulley's Avatar
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    Default Re: Colonial of Zeeland 1977 Grandmother Clock (By: gleber)

    Indeed.. I suppose I'll have to get this bad boy out of the case.. Question, does anyone have any of the original manuals or material on these movements? I find a Hermle maintenance manual, though the site wont let me download it. It has all the steps that need to be taken towards servicing it, but all via text and not pics. Also, how do I remove the hour hand? It says it is friction fit... but I'm a strong guy and the pressure I attempted already made me nervous. Does anyone have any, 'Oh.. and just incase you an idiot.. do NOT do the following.." You know... like use WD40.. that's the one thing I picked up in from lurking here.. lol I'm glad as the idea had crossed my mind.

    Also, the clock won't run for more than 2 minutes or so.. I think this is because I'm going to have take the movement out of the case to secure the verge/anchor properly. I sort of had to use a right angle screw driver and probably didn't get it as centered as it needs to be. Also, I noticed when looking from the top down that the part to which the suspension spring attaches to the anchor (suspension post I believe) is attached seems to point left ever so slightly.. Is this a big deal?

    Thanks again,
    KPM
    Last edited by KPMcCulley; 09-06-2017 at 11:32 AM.

  3. #18

    Default Re: Colonial of Zeeland 1977 Grandmother Clock (By: gleber)

    Quote Originally Posted by gleber View Post
    The link I posted works, but a lot of the topics on that page, like Beat Setting 101, do not have links. This is what I see:



    Can you actually click on "Beat Setting 101" and view the topic?

    Tom
    I see what you mean now - no, I can't open 'Beat Setting 101' either. But the whole format of the front of the mb seems to be different today - I don't know what's going on.

    JTD

  4. #19
    Registered user. gleber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Colonial of Zeeland 1977 Grandmother Clock (By: JTD)

    Quote Originally Posted by JTD View Post
    I see what you mean now - no, I can't open 'Beat Setting 101' either. But the whole format of the front of the mb seems to be different today - I don't know what's going on.

    JTD
    I'm glad I'm not crazy. Or should I say, welcome to the crazy club? I noticed the front page "issues" too.

    Is there a Moderator or Administrator in the house?

    Tom
    Last edited by gleber; 09-06-2017 at 12:01 PM.

  5. #20
    Registered user. gleber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Colonial of Zeeland 1977 Grandmother Clock (By: KPMcCulley)

    Quote Originally Posted by KPMcCulley View Post
    Indeed.. I suppose I'll have to get this bad boy out of the case.. Question, does anyone have any of the original manuals or material on these movements? I find a Hermle maintenance manual, though the site wont let me download it. It has all the steps that need to be taken towards servicing it, but all via text and not pics. Also, how do I remove the hour hand? It says it is friction fit... but I'm a strong guy and the pressure I attempted already made me nervous. Does anyone have any, 'Oh.. and just incase you an idiot.. do NOT do the following.." You know... like use WD40.. that's the one thing I picked up in from lurking here.. lol I'm glad as the idea had crossed my mind.

    Also, the clock won't run for more than 2 minutes or so.. I think this is because I'm going to have take the movement out of the case to secure the verge/anchor properly. I sort of had to use a right angle screw driver and probably didn't get it as centered as it needs to be. Also, I noticed when looking from the top down that the part to which the suspension spring attaches to the anchor (suspension post I believe) is attached seems to point left ever so slightly.. Is this a big deal?

    Thanks again,
    KPM
    I'm sorry, I don't have or know of any manual or references.

    You can try to turn the hour hand when you pull it. That might help break it free. Some clocks have an alignment pin (my Colonial 1387 does), but I don't think yours does.

    I think your best bet is to take the movement out to work on it. You can also study it better to look for any other issues. As for not running long, the first step is to check the beat. If you just installed the verge/anchor, I would check the adjustment on it and the escape wheel. Other than that, it may be dirty or wear.

    Tom

  6. #21

    Default Re: Colonial of Zeeland 1977 Grandmother Clock (By: KPMcCulley)

    Contact Mark A Butterworth for the Hermle manuals on a thumb drive. WWW.butterworthclock.com acct: butterworth pw: butterworth

  7. #22
    Registered user. gleber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Colonial of Zeeland 1977 Grandmother Clock (By: upstateny)

    Quote Originally Posted by upstateny View Post
    Contact Mark A Butterworth for the Hermle manuals on a thumb drive. WWW.butterworthclock.com acct: butterworth pw: butterworth
    I believe the website is http://www.butterworthclocks.com/, with an "s"

    Tom

  8. #23

    Default Re: Colonial of Zeeland 1977 Grandmother Clock (By: gleber)

    Quote Originally Posted by gleber View Post
    I believe the website is http://www.butterworthclocks.com/, with an "s"

    Tom
    Thanks Tom! My typing was a little off at 4AM!

  9. #24

    Default Re: Colonial of Zeeland 1977 Grandmother Clock (By: gleber)

    Glad to say that everything seems to be back to normal and 'Beat Setting 101' opens as it should now.

    JTD

  10. #25
    Registered user. KPMcCulley's Avatar
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    Default Re: Colonial of Zeeland 1977 Grandmother Clock (By: JTD)

    So, after pulling the movement out, I played around with the clutch and the verge/anchor. After watching several videos on youtube about putting clocks in beat, I noticed how the demonstration movement when in adjustment would move freely back and forth.. No matter what I did, I could not locate such a sweet spot and came to the realization that before I could make any further progress, the movement had to be oiled. Since I have gone over my budget this month for hobbies, can any of you recommend a household oil alternative to at least get it going? I'd like to go ahead attempt to oil it so I might find out if I am going to have to disassemble the whole thing or not. My first thought for an alternative is WD-40... NO! I'm KIDDING! How about the oil I use on my hair clippers?

    Cheers,
    KPM

  11. #26

    Default Re: Colonial of Zeeland 1977 Grandmother Clock (By: KPMcCulley)

    Before you oil anything, could you explain a bit more. You say that the movement you watched in the videos 'moved freely back and forth' but implied that yours didn't. Do you mean it jammed? If so, that is more than just out of beat. A clock which is out of beat will sound uneven, tick-TOCK or TICK-tock, but it will still move freely. If yours is not moving properly, it sounds to me as if the depthing may be wrong on your movement. Just oiling it is not going to solve the problem.

    Have your read 'Beat Setting 101', which is now accessible via the link that Tom mentioned in his post? This is a very good learning text.

    Perhaps you could post a photo of your movement with the verge in place -or, if you can, a video showing what it's doing.

    JTD

  12. #27
    Registered user. gleber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Colonial of Zeeland 1977 Grandmother Clock (By: JTD)

    Quote Originally Posted by JTD View Post
    Before you oil anything, could you explain a bit more. You say that the movement you watched in the videos 'moved freely back and forth' but implied that yours didn't. Do you mean it jammed? If so, that is more than just out of beat. A clock which is out of beat will sound uneven, tick-TOCK or TICK-tock, but it will still move freely. If yours is not moving properly, it sounds to me as if the depthing may be wrong on your movement. Just oiling it is not going to solve the problem.
    ...

    JTD
    I agree with JTD. Since you installed the verge, the chances that it is out of adjustment is a possibility (not a criticism, just a thought). If the verge anchor will not rock back and forth and let a tooth "escape" each time, it is probably too close and will need to be backed off. With a little hand pressure on the chain, you should be able to rock the crutch back and forth and watch the escape wheel turn. You should check this all the way around. Sometimes, if it is close, one tooth might be a little longer and catch (not "escape"). Of course, if the verge is too far away, multiple teeth can "escape," which is not good either.

    Unless there is a lot of corrosion, or very gummed up pivots, the mechanism should be able to turn freely. If it is not turning, and locking up, something more than needing oil is likely the root cause.

    I do think your clipper oil would be fine. Go sparingly.

    Tom
    Last edited by gleber; 09-07-2017 at 10:43 AM.

  13. #28
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    Default Re: Colonial of Zeeland 1977 Grandmother Clock (By: gleber)

    It does turn freely.. but the the weight will not drive the movement forward. When I apply pendulum, the momentum of it drives the clock for a few minutes and then it stops. If I remove the pendulum, I can gently rock the verge and the movement will advance but it will not move back and forth without me giving it a little help.

    KPM

  14. #29
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    Default Re: Colonial of Zeeland 1977 Grandmother Clock (By: KPMcCulley)

    So.. I oiled it up with a good synthetic, put it in beat, and it has run strong for several hours keeping perfect time... even the chimes work. I suppose this was the best $30 I've ever spent.. Thank you all so much for your assistance on my first dabble into clockwork... I don't think it will be my last.

    Cheers,
    KPM

  15. #30
    Registered user. gleber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Colonial of Zeeland 1977 Grandmother Clock (By: KPMcCulley)

    Quote Originally Posted by KPMcCulley View Post
    So.. I oiled it up with a good synthetic, put it in beat, and it has run strong for several hours keeping perfect time... even the chimes work. I suppose this was the best $30 I've ever spent.. Thank you all so much for your assistance on my first dabble into clockwork... I don't think it will be my last.

    Cheers,
    KPM
    Congratulations!

    And, all of us here are 100% sure it won't be your last. Resistance is futile...

    Tom

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