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  1. #16
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    Default Re: My first clean and service, and it runs! (By: rdixiemiller)

    Quote Originally Posted by rdixiemiller View Post
    Thanks for the info on the hair spring collet. I was concerned that it would slip, but it seems to be holding tight. Motion is vigorous, and smooth. I bought watch oil and oilers, and a movement holder before I started. I lurked around here, read a lot of threads on cleaning watches. I did peg out the holes, got a surprising amount of crud out of the jewel holes. I pulled the balance jewel cap stones and cleaned out the bottom jewels. The most aggravating part was getting the hairspring end piece back into the balance cock. Damned small piece to line up!
    So far, it's holding good time, even though the regulator is at the low end of the scale, probably at 5% of its range. I'm carrying it every day, and having a good time doing so.
    This is an addiction, but it's cheaper than drugs or alcohol, and much more satisfying!

    You will soon learn that "watch oil" entails at least five different lubricants. The cleaning in naptha will work but requires a whole lot of elbow grease. You need to really get the surfaces chemically clean. You also need to rinse the parts in fresh naptha after cleaning, as well as heat them up while they dry to prevent condensation forming on them, causing rust. Just a couple of hints for the road ahead! Depending on the frequency and output of your gun cleaner you could maybe use that. Just need smaller baskets with finer mesh.

    Best of luck to you! And I second the timing washers. Does your watch have mean time screws by the way?

    Best regards
    Karl

  2. #17
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    Default Re: My first clean and service, and it runs! (By: karlmansson)

    [QUOTE=karlmansson;1138609]You will soon learn that "watch oil" entails at least five different lubricants. The cleaning in naptha will work but requires a whole lot of elbow grease. You need to really get the surfaces chemically clean. You also need to rinse the parts in fresh naptha after cleaning, as well as heat them up while they dry to prevent condensation forming on them, causing rust. Just a couple of hints for the road ahead! Depending on the frequency and output of your gun cleaner you could maybe use that. Just need smaller baskets with finer mesh.

    I have Möbius 8000 and 8300 so far, and I think I will get some synthetic to try.
    I'm going to invest in a small ultrasonic, and some commercial cleaner. Naphtha is fine for oil, but won't remove the oxides.

    Just an afterthought, I have some cold blue I use to touch up guns, might be the thing for hands and screw heads that have rusted a tad. Polish them bright, then hit them with Oxpho Blue.

    Best of luck to you! And I second the timing washers. Does your watch have mean time screws by the way?

    Honestly I'm not sure about meantime screws. I've read about them, but I'm not sure I've seen them.
    Now, I've ended up with a dozen watches from the auction sites. Now to sit down and have some fun at the bench.

    Regards to all
    Robert

  3. #18

    Default Re: My first clean and service, and it runs! (By: RJSoftware)

    HA!!! So true about beetles- great gawds almighty, what a piece of machinery are most insects! (Although I am more a fan of Hymenoptra than Coleoptera, the Coleoptera are more of an engineering marvel in so many ways...) The more powerful the microscope, the more impressive the detail that is exposed. Engineering at its finest. But for us mere mortals, Watches and Clocks are very strong second runners!

  4. #19
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    Default Re: My first clean and service, and it runs! (By: rdixiemiller)

    [QUOTE=rdixiemiller;1138905]
    Quote Originally Posted by karlmansson View Post
    You will soon learn that "watch oil" entails at least five different lubricants. The cleaning in naptha will work but requires a whole lot of elbow grease. You need to really get the surfaces chemically clean. You also need to rinse the parts in fresh naptha after cleaning, as well as heat them up while they dry to prevent condensation forming on them, causing rust. Just a couple of hints for the road ahead! Depending on the frequency and output of your gun cleaner you could maybe use that. Just need smaller baskets with finer mesh.

    I have Möbius 8000 and 8300 so far, and I think I will get some synthetic to try.
    I'm going to invest in a small ultrasonic, and some commercial cleaner. Naphtha is fine for oil, but won't remove the oxides.

    Just an afterthought, I have some cold blue I use to touch up guns, might be the thing for hands and screw heads that have rusted a tad. Polish them bright, then hit them with Oxpho Blue.

    Best of luck to you! And I second the timing washers. Does your watch have mean time screws by the way?

    Honestly I'm not sure about meantime screws. I've read about them, but I'm not sure I've seen them.
    Now, I've ended up with a dozen watches from the auction sites. Now to sit down and have some fun at the bench.

    Regards to all
    Robert
    Sounds good!

    You will need two viscosities of oils, 8000 is a light oil. You need something else for slow moving parts. Some use D5. A good synthetic equivalent could be HP1300. A mainspring grease is a must. 8300 isn't made for mainsprings but for slow moving, non-rotating parts such as setting levers and clutch Wheels.
    Then, a dedicated escapement lubricant is a good long term investment, although many get away with using 8000 (or 9010) in the beginning. Both will migrate though, 9415 will not.

    Cold blue can be used. If you want to look into re-blueing hands, have a look at Marty101 's posts. He has quite the knack for it! The hands were originally

    Mean time screws differ from timing screws in that they are held by the thread in the balance, and have a longer thread. They're used to slow the rate of balance rather than for small timing adjustments and poising. You'll find them directly over, or Close to the arms of the balance.

    Please note that my suggestions on lubricants above are just suggestions. Lubricants is a subject of heated debate around these parts.
    You may want to look into some Commercial Watch cleaning solutions as well, I personally use an ammoniated one that works well on oxides. Just remember to rinse and heat!

    Best regards
    Karl

  5. #20
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    Default Re: My first clean and service, and it runs! (By: karlmansson)

    Sorry, didn't finish my snetence there it seems... The hands were originally heat blued and I'm not sure you can get a Bright enough blue using Cold blue. Most examples I've seen of Cold blueing looks almost black on steel.

  6. #21
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    Default Re: My first clean and service, and it runs! (By: karlmansson)

    Yeah, cold bluing gives a matte finish, and it can vary from blue (copper based) to black (phosphoric acid based). However, on a set of rusty hands, it might be a reasonable fix.

    I am going to pick up a small US cleaner, and a gallon of cleaner. I want to brighten up some of my watches.

    I also have seen the lubricant arguments. Right now, I just want to get some watch experience under my belt. I will start fine tuning later.

    I will look for mean time screws on this watch, tonight when I get home.

  7. #22
    Registered User gmorse's Avatar
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    Default Re: My first clean and service, and it runs! (By: rdixiemiller)

    Hi rdixiemiller,

    An alternative to cold bluing is to use bluing salts, which are melted over heat and the melting point is designed to be just high enough produce the heat bluing.

    Regards,

    Graham

    "Ut tensio, sic vis" - Robert Hooke

  8. #23
    Registered user. RJSoftware's Avatar
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    Default Re: My first clean and service, and it runs! (By: gmorse)

    My understanding is 500 degrees is the temp required for blue. So wouldn't a thermostatic controlled heat source work well? Something like an electric iron and a oven thermometer.

    RJ
    Today is the tomorrow that you worried about yesterday.

    Ahh, the crunchy sound of victory https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGaVUApDVuY

  9. #24
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    Default Re: My first clean and service, and it runs! (By: gmorse)

    I've done some molten salt blueing over the years, its also a good way to draw a spring, depending on the salt mix.

  10. #25
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    Default Re: My first clean and service, and it runs! (By: RJSoftware)

    Quote Originally Posted by RJSoftware View Post
    My understanding is 500 degrees is the temp required for blue. So wouldn't a thermostatic controlled heat source work well? Something like an electric iron and a oven thermometer.

    RJ
    The temp Control is only part of the process, more so getting the Surfaces prepped for a good, even blueing is more challenging. You need the Surfaces chemically Clean with no oil or residues.

  11. #26

    Default Re: My first clean and service, and it runs! (By: karlmansson)

    If you have purchased a used movement, is it advisable to clean it before running it at all to test it, or can you run it for short periods to test? I'm assuming best practise is to clean it to prevent scratches.

  12. #27

    Default Re: My first clean and service, and it runs! (By: m12)

    This would seem to be an important question, or maybe it has come up before and has already been addressed.

  13. #28
    Registered User Jim Haney's Avatar
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    Default Re: My first clean and service, and it runs!

    Quote Originally Posted by m12 View Post
    If you have purchased a used movement, is it advisable to clean it before running it at all to test it, or can you run it for short periods to test? I'm assuming best practise is to clean it to prevent scratches.
    You can examine it with a 10x loupe and look into the jewel holes (or bushings) for gummed up oil holding dirt and if you find this, don't run it, until you can clean it.
    Jim Haney

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