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  1. #16

    Default Re: Is this a Hamilton case(Wadsworth) (By: Tom McIntyre)

    I found the auction in question. IMO, Musicguy did nothing wrong by not informing the seller that he might have the wrong watch images up. He gave the seller, a professional with over 2000 feedback rating, a chance to verify that the image was of the subject watch being auctioned. If the seller verified that the images were of the watch that he bid on, and Musicguy gets a 17J watch, he should return it. Had he not have verified it, it would be another story.

    If Musicguy gets the 922 for his price, he got a very nice watch at a very nice price, even if the case isn't made for Hamilton. However, despite my not finding that style case for factory-cased 922's, I sense that it's original. If all it needs is a clean and oil, then he really scored. I'd like to have one of those highly jeweled bridge-models. I'd send congratulations but don't want to jinx it. Good luck.

  2. #17

    Default Re: Is this a Hamilton case(Wadsworth)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom McIntyre View Post
    The point of contention here is whether the level playing field paragraph in the Member's Code of Ethical Conduct applies to both buyers and sellers. Here is the paragraph:



    As you can see it does not put constraints on the buyer although many feel that is the essence of the level field, that it applies to both.

    The complete code may be found at https://nawcc.org/images/stories/mem..._5-28-2011.pdf

    My personal practice is to inform any seller of errors in their description if I am considering purchase, whether the error is in their favor or my favor. From this dialog, I suspect It Was uses the same rule. I make an exception for live auctions unless I am sure the auctioneer has misleading information since I do not know what mind games the auctioneer may be playing.
    In relation to the dialog Tom (if I am reading you correctly), I do not see anywhere in the previous Op's posts that he actually disclosed anything to the seller about what the watch actual was. All that was said by the Op's own statement, he ask them;

    "I just want to confirm before I bid, that the watch in the photographs is the same
    watch you are selling. I'm not trying to insult you, just asking."

    They responded, "
    The one and only, Yes it is"

    I understand the code Tom, maybe it needs to be tweaked a little with reference to the Buyer that they also discharge their duties in relation to ethics and conduct. The code to me clearly seems to target just Sellers in relation to Business transactions, when as you said, "
    As you can see it does not put constraints on the buyer although many feel that is the essence of the level field, that it applies to both."


    Last edited by Bila; 08-11-2017 at 03:05 AM.

  3. #18
    Registered User musicguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is this a Hamilton case(Wadsworth)

    This is the last post I will make on this subject.

    The seller was a professional auction house/pawn shop type place
    that's been around since 1986. I told him to double check his
    listing photographs(and he did). If this was an individual with no feedback,
    or someone who doesn't sell clocks and watches on a regular basis(like this one does)
    I would have approached it differently.

    I am truly sorry that I offended you Bila, and I will make sure
    I learn from every experience I have. I was kind of joking about
    returning the watch, because I believe I will get the watch in the
    photograph just like the seller with over 2000 feedback 100% positive said.

    I don't know you, but I try to be very transparent here, and polite
    to others. It's never my intention to create drama. I have told countless
    sellers on ebay that they have wrong listings, I even started a thread about it here on this forum.
    I believe I'm an honest ebay user.

    If what I did offends many of you here at the NAWCC forum, then it's time for me to go.

    Thanks
    Rob

  4. #19
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    Default Re: Is this a Hamilton case(Wadsworth) (By: musicguy)

    I am not offended. I am sure much meaning and intent can be lost when writing here and elsewhere. I credit all for keeping their cool and discussing it.
    Darrah
    Chap. 15, 124, 139, 149, 168

  5. #20
    Technical Admin Tom McIntyre's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is this a Hamilton case(Wadsworth) (By: darrahg)

    Rob, I am not offended either. With a really high volume seller who did not want to take the time to do a sanity check between his listing and pictures, I might have decided it was a lesson he needed to learn and cheap for him at the price. Of course he will not learn any lesson and will be unlikely to even notice what happened.

    I am glad that you take the time to inform naive sellers that they have made an error, even when it may cost you money. I try to do the same thing. A couple of times when I have tried to "help" the high volume sellers, I have been told to "get stuffed."

    Whatever rules we have in place, we should have plenty of room for personal decisions in their interpretations. When the BOD were discussing the Member's Code of Ethical Conduct, the previous draft was called the "Code of Ethics." We decided that we had no means and no business investigating anyone's ethics and observing conduct was the best we could possibly do. The language focused on selling despite my arguing that it should also include some language about buying from the general public whom we have the mission to educate.
    Tom McIntyre Click me.
    If you don't learn to laugh at trouble,
    you won't have anything to laugh at when you're old.
    Will Rogers

  6. #21
    Registered user. LloydB's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is this a Hamilton case(Wadsworth) (By: musicguy)

    Quote Originally Posted by musicguy View Post
    Here's the story......

    I found a listing for a broken 17j Hamilton (no size listed)
    and when I looked at the photographs I realized that it
    was a 12s 23j 922.

    I emailed the seller and asked them:
    "I just want to confirm before I bid, that the watch in the
    photographs is the same
    watch you are selling. I'm not
    trying to insult you, just asking."

    They responded, "
    The one and only, Yes it is"

    so I bid on it and won.

    If the watch I get in the mail is a broken 17j Hamilton
    then I will return it. Hopefully it's the beautiful 922
    23j Adjusted 5 positions watch in the photographs.
    But I don't wan't to post a phot until I get it. The seller
    has 100% positive feedback and thousands of sales.
    Serial number of Hamilton 3003779 Rob
    If Rob had written

    "If the watch I get in the mail is a [different model]
    broken 17j Hamilton
    then I will return it."

    I suspect this exchange wouldn't have happened.

    FWIW, I understood that to be Rob's intention.

  7. #22
    Registered User musicguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is this a Hamilton case(Wadsworth)

    Many people over the years have told me that when something sells on
    ebay(for less than you think it's worth) many times you are deluding
    yourself thinking you got a great deal. Because, out of the 9 other bidders
    you paid the highest price at that time(if you won it). You paid the current market price.

    The reason I bring that up is because I was tracking another similar 12s 23j watch to the one
    I just bought (this one was a Hamilton 920 12s 23j). I wanted to see what it was going to sell
    for on eBay. And this watch was going off(selling) within a week of the one I just bought(so it was a good comparison).

    This particular one's description and photos were very complete(12 photos, listed the jewel count and grade number in title).
    It didn't sell for too much more than what I paid for mine(literally and this one had free shipping).
    And this one that just sold (even though it needs a new balance staff) comes in a Hamilton
    original box(can't tell if original to this watch), and in it's factory signed case.
    (Ended ebay listing for similar watch)

    If these watches(mine included) were 18k or 14k they would have sold quickly and at
    a premium price.

    I think these 12 size watches should have more buying demand for their quality and beauty, but
    the 16 size get all the buyers. The 12 size don't get the love they should(even highly jeweled).

    This could all be from a slumping demand for pocket watches in general.
    It's really a buyers market now, but not for investment purposes because
    the prices of these same watches will probably be lower next year.


    Rob
    Last edited by musicguy; 08-14-2017 at 05:56 AM.

  8. #23

    Default Re: Is this a Hamilton case(Wadsworth) (By: musicguy)

    I'm with musicguy on this one. Otherwise what is the point of putting something up for auction at all? The alternative is everything priced as per the price guide book and description. That would take all the fun out of it and drive me into car boot sales etc, with even more scope for skulduggery.

  9. #24
    Registered User musicguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is this a Hamilton case(Wadsworth) (By: rolandantrobus)

    If anyone is interested in seeing the watch, I'm moving this
    over to a more appropriate thread. CLICK HERE


    Rob

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