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  1. #16

    Default Re: unmarked banjo clock...

    rm -

    thanks for your considered thoughts.

    i like it with side arms removed, as is... guess i'm not a purist! 8-)
    Last edited by bruce linde; 07-26-2017 at 11:56 PM.
    i collect antique clocks because i get all that extra time...

  2. #17
    Registered User George Nelson's Avatar
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    Default Re: unmarked banjo clock... (By: bruce linde)

    Bruce,

    Quite a lot of discussion here. RM's response is very well taken. His quote, translated as "The thing speaks for itself" says a lot. There is evidence of wood sidearms, and, after seeing the close up pics of the ones on your clock, I, too am convinced they are not original.

    Now, your picture of the clock with the sidearms removed is most attractive, and I agree that it looks much better.

    I hope you are still pleased with your clock after all of this discussion. It is a lovely piece any way you look at it, and, after about 150 years, still does what it was intended to do as well as it always did. Many of us can not say that, can we?

    Best to all,

    George
    Time is a great story teller... Irish Proverb

  3. #18

    Default Re: unmarked banjo clock... (By: George Nelson)

    the example of a correct tablet posted by andy is simply a 'wow'... i can't imagine finding one of those running loose in the wild, but perchance to dream.

    in the meantime, i realized that one of the reasons i like the look of the clock... and in particular, the lower tablet... is that it's stylistically very much like the cover for one of my all-time favorite albums: gaucho, by steely dan. while fairly confident that steely dan are not cited very often as influences in PTP designs, i thought i would at least document the resemblance here for future scholars.



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    i collect antique clocks because i get all that extra time...

  4. #19

    Default Re: unmarked banjo clock... (By: bruce linde)

    I have always been curious, was the "presentation pediment" an option when buying/ordering a PTP or were some designed without and was this option period driven, I.e. popular during a certain time frame and then abandoned?
    Thanks.
    Bruce
    Es mejor morir de pie, que vivir de rodillas.....Emiliano Zapata Salazar

  5. #20
    Registered User George Nelson's Avatar
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    Default Re: unmarked banjo clock... (By: Bruce Barnes)

    Bruce,

    It is my understanding that the PTP case styles were offered as follows: plain, w/o pediment, 'presentation style" with pediment and lots of gilding, and the famous 'girandole' style by Lemuel Curtis. Of course, all of the makers offered different variations, but I believe these are the three main early styles offered. I'm sure others will correct me if I'm wrong.

    Best,

    George
    Time is a great story teller... Irish Proverb

  6. #21

    Default Re: unmarked banjo clock... (By: George Nelson)

    Thanks George, so this wasn't just a basic marketing ploy for the affluent and the options continued on for the duration of the PTP clocks.
    Regards,
    Bruce
    Es mejor morir de pie, que vivir de rodillas.....Emiliano Zapata Salazar

  7. #22

    Default Re: unmarked banjo clock... (By: Bruce Barnes)

    what means 'pediment' in this context? i thought it was something at the top of a case or doorway... are you talking about the thing that extends below the lower box and tablet on some of the PTPs?
    i collect antique clocks because i get all that extra time...

  8. #23
    Registered User George Nelson's Avatar
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    Default Re: unmarked banjo clock...

    Bruce L.:

    Yes, in this case we are referring to the bottom part as the base pediment. There may be another, more proper term for it, but if so, I am unaware of what it might be. So much to learn...sigh.

    Best,

    George
    Time is a great story teller... Irish Proverb

  9. #24

    Default Re: unmarked banjo clock... (By: George Nelson)

    Quote Originally Posted by George Nelson View Post
    Bruce L.:
    Yes, in this case we are referring to the bottom part as the base pediment. There may be another, more proper term for it, but if so, I am unaware of what it might be. So much to learn...sigh.
    Best,
    George

    so many clocks, so little time!

    found this while researching tifft... graphics courtesy of http://www.garysullivanantiques.com/...ck-Terminology ... according to him, it's 'bracket' and 'drop finial'.



    what do we think? does foley call out these parts in his book?

    b
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    i collect antique clocks because i get all that extra time...

  10. #25

    Default Re: unmarked banjo clock... (By: bruce linde)

    I can see why he would call it a bracket, as it looks like the wall bracket that gives bracket clocks their name, but presumably in this case it is not a support.
    Nick, lots to learn, late starter.

  11. #26
    Registered User George Nelson's Avatar
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    Default Re: unmarked banjo clock... (By: novicetimekeeper)

    I agree with Novice... It does look like a wall bracket or shelf. As always, several names for the same thing!

    George
    Time is a great story teller... Irish Proverb

  12. #27

    Default Re: unmarked banjo clock... (By: George Nelson)

    Quote Originally Posted by George Nelson View Post
    I agree with Novice... It does look like a wall bracket or shelf. As always, several names for the same thing!

    George
    I think people get confused by pediment because they know pedestal is the base of something. Though they sound related they have different roots. Pedestal is derived from the latin for foot, pediment is thought to derive from the old English for pyramid, which is why it describes a low triangular gable on a classical building.
    Nick, lots to learn, late starter.

  13. #28

    Default Re: unmarked banjo clock... (By: novicetimekeeper)

    Interesting, if you look at the photo the pediment may be seen as an inverted pyramid............
    Es mejor morir de pie, que vivir de rodillas.....Emiliano Zapata Salazar

  14. #29

    Default Re: unmarked banjo clock... (By: Bruce Barnes)

    I agree, just noticed oculus. On a longcase we call that a lenticle. Whenever I see oculus it makes me think of the Pantheon.
    Nick, lots to learn, late starter.

  15. #30

    Default Re: unmarked banjo clock... (By: novicetimekeeper)

    Hello,

    Simon Willard initiated "presentation type" with his "bride's timepiece". The case was painted white, gilt frames and a lower bracket.

    Very few period timepieces had lower brackets or as some individual note as the "presentation" style case. The "presentation style" became more popular in 20th century with reproductions made by Waltham Clock Co. and later production by Elmer Stennes and Foster Campos.

    Paul Foley's book "Willard's Patent Time Pieces" is thorough discussion and illustrates the timepiece production history. It definitely answers most questions and provides original examples.

    So many timepieces have been significantly altered over the years that few collectors really understand what a "correct time piece" really looks like. There was a major effort in late 19th century to create "Simon Willard" looking pieces by modifying N. Attleboro MA style clocks, but these clocks only fool novice collectors.

    Andy Dervan

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