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  1. #31

    Default Re: Today I started casting brass for my verge reconversion (By: novicetimekeeper)

    [QUOTE=novicetimekeeper;1130686]It's well worth it, the difference between early 18th century brass and modern brass is quite marked.

    Really? What’s the difference? Brass is formed when copper and zinc are melted together. It’s actually a simple alloy.

    There are many commercially available brass alloys. The most common include:

    Yellow brass 67% copper 33% zinc
    Rich Low brass 85% copper 15% zinc
    Low brass 80% copper 20% zinc
    High brass 65% copper 35% zinc
    Gilding brass 95% copper 5% zinc
    Brass 63% copper 37% zinc
    Cartridge brass 70% copper 30% zinc
    Beta brass 50% copper 50% zinc
    Rupert’s brass 75% copper 25% zinc

    This is the short list of “pure” brass. The list of brasses alloyed with tin, iron, aluminum, lead, manages, and nickel is long. The more zinc in the alloy the lighter the color of the brass will be and the harder it will be.

    If you want to match an alloy take a sample to any large metals recycling yard and ask them to pass the XRF analyzer over it.

    Not to detract from Mr. Hageman in any manner I fully understand what he did and why he did it but I’d bet that your 18th century brass is high brass -35% zinc.

    Regards,
    D~

    List of brasses from:

    “Understanding copper alloys: The manufacture and use of copper alloy sheet and strip”
    J. Howard Mendenhall
    Olin Brass (1977)

  2. #32

    Default Re: Today I started casting brass for my verge reconversion (By: the 3rd dwarve)

    [QUOTE=the 3rd dwarve;1130706]
    Quote Originally Posted by novicetimekeeper View Post
    It's well worth it, the difference between early 18th century brass and modern brass is quite marked.

    Really? What’s the difference? Brass is formed when copper and zinc are melted together. It’s actually a simple alloy.

    There are many commercially available brass alloys. The most common include:

    Yellow brass 67% copper 33% zinc
    Rich Low brass 85% copper 15% zinc
    Low brass 80% copper 20% zinc
    High brass 65% copper 35% zinc
    Gilding brass 95% copper 5% zinc
    Brass 63% copper 37% zinc
    Cartridge brass 70% copper 30% zinc
    Beta brass 50% copper 50% zinc
    Rupert’s brass 75% copper 25% zinc

    This is the short list of “pure” brass. The list of brasses alloyed with tin, iron, aluminum, lead, manages, and nickel is long. The more zinc in the alloy the lighter the color of the brass will be and the harder it will be.

    If you want to match an alloy take a sample to any large metals recycling yard and ask them to pass the XRF analyzer over it.

    Not to detract from Mr. Hageman in any manner I fully understand what he did and why he did it but I’d bet that your 18th century brass is high brass -35% zinc.

    Regards,
    D~

    List of brasses from:

    “Understanding copper alloys: The manufacture and use of copper alloy sheet and strip”
    J. Howard Mendenhall
    Olin Brass (1977)

    Yes, really.

    We know that 18th century brass had a higher zinc content and we know brass is an alloy that can be made with various compositions.

    As Peter said he could have bought the correct alloy in the UK but it isn't cheap, collectors tend to end up with a pile of bits of the correct alloy over time which can be used to make parts though we don't usually have big enough bits for this. The option is to buy the correct alloy or to melt down some bits as Peter has.

    I suspect Peter rather fancied doing it this way so it isn't entirely an economic decision, but yes we really do want the right colour brass in our clocks, as my picture shows the alternative is not attractive.
    Nick, lots to learn, late starter.

  3. #33
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    Default Re: Today I started casting brass for my verge reconversion (By: the 3rd dwarve)

    Quote Originally Posted by the 3rd dwarve View Post
    Mr. Hageman,

    That’s a lot of work for a color match; I applaud your attention to detail.

    There is some very nice work there.

    Do you grind your cutters from HSS or do you prefer a specific grade like W-1?

    Regards,
    D~
    Cr V3 steel I use. But I am not in to all those different types of metal. This is what was advised, and when hardened mostly it works fine.

  4. #34
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    Default Re: Today I started casting brass for my verge reconversion

    The contrate wheel found its place. Mounted it on its arbor and it running smootly. Next step is the verge to mount on its arbor.
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  5. #35
    Registered User Burkhard Rasch's Avatar
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    Default Re: Today I started casting brass for my verge reconversion (By: P.Hageman)

    wow,great stuff!Congrats!!
    Burkhard
    Gigni de nihilo nihil,et nihil in nihilum posse reverti
    (Persius)

  6. #36
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    Default Re: Today I started casting brass for my verge reconversion (By: P.Hageman)

    hi, moving right along. the wheel looks very much at home. do you have photos of before so we can see what you are replacing and what the conversion looked like? perhaps side by side photos?

    Joe

  7. #37
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    Default Re: Today I started casting brass for my verge reconversion (By: klokwiz)

    Quote Originally Posted by klokwiz View Post
    hi, moving right along. the wheel looks very much at home. do you have photos of before so we can see what you are replacing and what the conversion looked like? perhaps side by side photos?

    Joe
    Hmm, never thought about that

  8. #38
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    Default Re: Today I started casting brass for my verge reconversion (By: P.Hageman)

    Made a jig from aluminium to hold the vergewheel and protect the theeth while cutting and filing the spokes into place. The jig holds the wheel firm and I can file towards the inner edge of the jig to get a nice round diameter which is exactly the right diameter (I hope )
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  9. #39
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    Default Re: Today I started casting brass for my verge reconversion (By: P.Hageman)

    A bit busy last days, but yesterday found some time to get the spokes into the verge. Starting to look like a real thing
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  10. #40
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    Default Re: Today I started casting brass for my verge reconversion (By: P.Hageman)

    A beautiful crown-wheel!
    Are you using the original/old arbors?

    Aitor
    It's all an accident, an accident of hands. Mine, others, all without mind, from one extreme to another, but neither works nor will ever. Steiner

  11. #41

    Default Re: Today I started casting brass for my verge reconversion (By: ballistarius)

    What do you use for filing? I think it was RJ (in the repair forum) who modified a sewing machine to hold the file and provide the 'muscle' for the job.
    A man with a clock always knows the time. A man with two clocks is never sure.

  12. #42
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    Default Re: Today I started casting brass for my verge reconversion (By: shutterbug)

    Quote Originally Posted by shutterbug View Post
    What do you use for filing? I think it was RJ (in the repair forum) who modified a sewing machine to hold the file and provide the 'muscle' for the job.
    I use the ordinary handheld files, nothing special. I have not amounts of this type of work, so keeping the cost down as well.

    @Aitor, I made calculations so I can use the old original arbors and pinions.
    I

  13. #43
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    Default Re: Today I started casting brass for my verge reconversion

    So, next step will be making the pallet-arbor, knife edge suspension and pendulem Later on I will cross out the contrate wheel. After that if I have it started running, I will then finish all the parts to the "London standard" Looking forward for these steps.
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  14. #44

    Default Re: Today I started casting brass for my verge reconversion (By: P.Hageman)

    Very Kool
    A nice bit of machining.
    The man who knows how to make it work will always have a job, The man who knows why it makes it work will always be his boss. Website http://sailorsandsettlersantiques.com

  15. #45

    Default Re: Today I started casting brass for my verge reconversion (By: BLKBEARD)

    are you going to reduce the cock for the crown wheel arbour later? It is going to obscure all your fine work.

    It is fantastic work you are doing putting the movement back to verge, I love them.
    Nick, lots to learn, late starter.

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