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  1. #16
    Registered User gmorse's Avatar
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    Default Re: John Johnson fusee (By: John Matthews)

    Hi John,

    As far as I know, it would have been necessary for the movement to be supplied to the escapement finisher for the work to be done. They couldn't ensure that everything fitted correctly by merely supplying a kit of parts. Movements were certainly much travelled in the course of their construction by the 'putting out' system, and this applied from the earliest days of Prescot's supremacy. I think that your final paragraph is broadly true. The difference between manufacturing and finishing should be clear, because there would have been a fair degree of matching and adjustment involved in the finishing. The mention of 'escape wheels with lever pallets wrapped as pairs' is a case in point, confirming that these two components would have been supplied already matched to each other.

    Have a look at Alan Smith's article on Richard Wright in AH Vol. 15 no. 6 and Alan Treherne's on the Lancashire trade in AH Vol. 31 no. 4.



    "Ut tensio, sic vis" - Robert Hooke

  2. #17

    Default Re: John Johnson fusee (By: gmorse)

    Graham - many thanks for the references. I still have much to understand and lots to read. Rather than continuing the discussion here, if (no when) I need further help understanding the method of working in the different centres and how it changed during the C19th, I will probably start a thread.


  3. #18
    Registered User Allan C. Purcell's Avatar
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    Default Re: John Johnson fusee

    Quote Originally Posted by Lychnobius View Post
    This is the highest serial number I have yet seen for a John Johnson. I have a very tentative theory that for a while the firm used the name of John Houghton Johnson, who died young in 1836, as a grade-marker for seven-jewel movements. At least this new example does nothing to contradict this idea.

    Dave, does the cut-out for the cock-table in the dust-cap give any clue to the shape of the cock itself? Is it parallel-sided, giving the shape of an arched doorway, or does it taper from bottom to top?

    Oliver Mundy.
    Hello Oliver.
    Some time ago I looked into the Johnson family watchmakers-not that I was interested in Johnson at the time- I could then, if I am honest, not afford a gold cased watch by him. I was at that time looking for information on another watchmaker. In the late 1800´s there were in England many non-conformist chapels-marriages in these chaples were not always recognised by the catholic church or church of England.so they then married in one of these-then in their chapel-in this case the ancient chapel Toxteth Liverpool. In the case of Joseph Johnson and his wife Mary Briers their children were baptised there.
    They were,
    John Houghton Johnson, 21 August 1808,
    Mary Johnson, 14 November 1809,
    Margaret Johnson, 18 September 1811,
    Alice Johnson, 6 May 1813,
    Joseph Johnson, 17 July 1815,
    Sarah Johnson, 14 March 1817,
    Elizabeth Johnson, 27 August 1819,
    Joseph Johnson, 11 May 1821,
    Ann Johnson, 13 December 1823.
    All baptisms Toxteth acient chapel Liverpool.
    The same applies to Joseph Johnsons parents, Richard Johnson married Alice Houghton at St. Mary Walton-on-the -Hill Liverpool on the 13 June 1773.
    It would appear Joseph and Mary Johnson did not have to much luck with their children. Their son Joseph born in 1815, and he must have died before 1821, they then named the next son Joseph Johnson. He would have been about six or seven years old when his father died in 1827. What happened him I don´t know.
    Now if we look at John Houghton Johnson-they are no records of an apprenticeship-and if he was trained by his father he would not have been free till 1829 at the age of 21. Though again there are no records or documents that say that he ever had anything to do with watchmaking. (Why did his mother run the business? and why not her son two years later?).You say he died in 1836, so in my humble oppinion to soon for the above watch. A photograph of the cock would be a great help.
    There is in Loomes a lot of space taken up with the name Johnson. If I am correct 41 are named John Johnson, you could ask him about the John Johnson Liverpool early 19th century, he may be able to help with a middle name.
    Wish I could help you more Oliver,



  4. #19

    Default Re: John Johnson fusee (By: Allan C. Purcell)

    And finally back together...
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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  5. #20

    Default Re: John Johnson fusee

    Hi Dave,

    Can you make-out the word stamped on the underside of the balance cock?

    Regards, PL

  6. #21

    Default Re: John Johnson fusee (By: PapaLouies)

    I've stared at it a lot. I don't see a word. I see something that looks like either an 'I' or 'T', but it could also be a casting flaw as it is not crisp like a stamp would be.

  7. #22
    Registered User gmorse's Avatar
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    Default Re: John Johnson fusee

    Hi Dave,

    Perhaps PL is referring to this area?

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	JJohnson8_crop.jpg 
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ID:	350539

    I confess I can't make out anything there, and it could just be file marks or similar, but on the other hand . . .


    Last edited by gmorse; 07-18-2017 at 02:40 PM.

    "Ut tensio, sic vis" - Robert Hooke

  8. #23

    Default Re: John Johnson fusee (By: gmorse)

    I've tried but cannot make out anything legible in that area.

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