Goal: $300, Received: $55.00 (18%) Contribute Now
Donate whatever you can or Join the 14,000 other NAWCC members for only $80 (plus $10 for hard copy publications). Check it out here.

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 16 to 29 of 29
  1. #16
    Technical Admin Tom McIntyre's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Boston. MA USA
    Posts
    19,174
    Blog Entries
    10

    Default Re: 1860's Fusee in 18KT CONVERTIBLE case , runs fine, would like input! (By: docbooks)

    For those who thought I might be slighting the Johnson movement by saying the value was insignificant compared to the case, I would have said the same thing if it were a E. Howard & Co. movement. I was just expressing the relative value of almost any movement in this case. The movement is indeed a very fine Liverpool movement. However, it is not the best London movement and unlikely to be as valuable as the scarce American Watch Co. grade KW 18 that I have also seen in this style and quality of case.
    Tom McIntyre Click me.
    If you don't learn to laugh at trouble,
    you won't have anything to laugh at when you're old.
    Will Rogers

  2. #17
    Registered User Jerry Treiman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    4,991

    Default Re: 1860's Fusee in 18KT CONVERTIBLE case , runs fine, would like input!

    Quote Originally Posted by docbooks View Post
    That's a scarce book---- I could only find ONE copy after searching ABE, Amazon and Ebay. It's on its way. Thanks!
    I hope you are not disappointed and hope it is the Dawes edition that you bought. Most of the older versions of Crossman's book do not include the casemakers. As far as I know, Donald Dawes' 2002 re-compilation of the original Crossman articles is the only complete compilation. There is still good information in the other editions, though.
    Jerry Treiman, NAWCC member since 1971
    Charter member of Pocket Horology Chapter 174

  3. #18

    Default Re: 1860's Fusee in 18KT CONVERTIBLE case , runs fine, would like input! (By: Jerry Treiman)

    I don't think I will know until it shows up since there was not a lot of detail in the description
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Treiman View Post
    I hope you are not disappointed and hope it is the Dawes edition that you bought. Most of the older versions of Crossman's book do not include the casemakers. As far as I know, Donald Dawes' 2002 re-compilation of the original Crossman articles is the only complete compilation. There is still good information in the other editions, though.

  4. #19
    Registered user.
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Redruth, Cornwall, UK
    Posts
    323

    Default Re: 1860's Fusee in 18KT CONVERTIBLE case , runs fine, would like input! (By: docbooks)

    This is indeed a fine specimen. The movement is a good, though conventional, 17-jewel fusee, and I have no doubt that (unlike many movements bearing this name) it is a genuine Johnson product. Johnson watches are difficult to date, largely because (as has been said) most of them were cased in the United States where the marking system did not include a date-letter, but I would place it in about 1840.

    The case is exceptional, both in its survival (very many Johnsons, including both of mine, have lost their cases) and in its quality. I have never seen such an elaborate case-signature, but who could blame Messrs. Durand Carter for blowing their own trumpet a little? Even the key looks as if it belongs with the case.

    The only thing which is slightly unusual is the dial with its recessed seconds panel. This treatment of the seconds dial is rarely found in Britain before the middle 1850s; however, Johnsons seem to have been among the first to adopt it, and I know of two very similar examples with serial numbers in the 18000s, so that there is no real reason to doubt its originality.

    It will be a pleasure to add this handsome piece to the database.

    Oliver Mundy.

  5. #20
    Registered User musicguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Orange County, NY
    Posts
    656

    Default Re: 1860's Fusee in 18KT CONVERTIBLE case , runs fine, would like input! (By: Lychnobius)

    Nothing new to add to the discussion but,
    I also like that this watch was used. The bow is worn at the top
    showing that this watch wasn't left in the draw for it's entire life.






    Rob

  6. #21

    Default Re: 1860's Fusee in 18KT CONVERTIBLE case , runs fine, would like input! (By: Lychnobius)

    Thank you for the detailed information - MUCH appreciated! I will be responding to your PM in a few moments.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lychnobius View Post
    This is indeed a fine specimen. The movement is a good, though conventional, 17-jewel fusee, and I have no doubt that (unlike many movements bearing this name) it is a genuine Johnson product. Johnson watches are difficult to date, largely because (as has been said) most of them were cased in the United States where the marking system did not include a date-letter, but I would place it in about 1840.

    The case is exceptional, both in its survival (very many Johnsons, including both of mine, have lost their cases) and in its quality. I have never seen such an elaborate case-signature, but who could blame Messrs. Durand Carter for blowing their own trumpet a little? Even the key looks as if it belongs with the case.

    The only thing which is slightly unusual is the dial with its recessed seconds panel. This treatment of the seconds dial is rarely found in Britain before the middle 1850s; however, Johnsons seem to have been among the first to adopt it, and I know of two very similar examples with serial numbers in the 18000s, so that there is no real reason to doubt its originality.

    It will be a pleasure to add this handsome piece to the database.

    Oliver Mundy.

  7. #22

    Default Re: 1860's Fusee in 18KT CONVERTIBLE case , runs fine, would like input!

    I hope I didn't get you, docbooks, to spend a bunch of money on a book that doesn't contain the desired information. The Crossman/Dawes edition was published in a very limited number of 200. So yes, there aren't a lot out there. It has a brown hard-cover with gold print. I apologize if your purchase, at my recommendation, doesn't end up having the case info.

  8. #23

    Default Re: 1860's Fusee in 18KT CONVERTIBLE case , runs fine, would like input! (By: MrRoundel)

    No worries...I saw your PM and responded. Cheers!
    Quote Originally Posted by MrRoundel View Post
    I hope I didn't get you, docbooks, to spend a bunch of money on a book that doesn't contain the desired information. The Crossman/Dawes edition was published in a very limited number of 200. So yes, there aren't a lot out there. It has a brown hard-cover with gold print. I apologize if your purchase, at my recommendation, doesn't end up having the case info.

  9. #24

    Default Re: 1860's Fusee in 18KT CONVERTIBLE case , runs fine, would like input! (By: docbooks)

    Let me preface this by reiterating that I still have not become completely familiar with manipulating this watch! So, I included a video to show the conversion process as well as accessing the movement for anyone who is interestedhttps://youtu.be/-sZs3AbB6xE. But, be kind ---- "No watches were harmed in the making of this video"

  10. #25
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    North Wales, UK
    Posts
    2,232

    Default Re: 1860's Fusee in 18KT CONVERTIBLE case , runs fine, would like input! (By: Tom McIntyre)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom McIntyre View Post
    For those who thought I might be slighting the Johnson movement by saying the value was insignificant compared to the case, I would have said the same thing if it were a E. Howard & Co. movement. I was just expressing the relative value of almost any movement in this case. The movement is indeed a very fine Liverpool movement. However, it is not the best London movement and unlikely to be as valuable as the scarce American Watch Co. grade KW 18 that I have also seen in this style and quality of case.
    RE: Post 16. Tom, I can't see a post, on this thread, in which you commented on the relative values of case and movement so I'm in the dark on that point but I would say that it is a no brainer that the case alone would be significantly more valuable than any associated uncased movement. Your assumptions re the desirability as a whole are yours to make; personally, were I to be presented with four watches, each in one of these cases, with an E Howard, American Watch Co KW, 'best London' or Liverpool movement of this quality, and I had to select one to purchase then I would opt for the latter every time - and then go rob a bank. Beauty is in the eye of etc etc

  11. #26
    Registered User gmorse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Breamore, Hampshire, UK
    Posts
    6,937
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: 1860's Fusee in 18KT CONVERTIBLE case , runs fine, would like input! (By: DaveyG)

    Hi Dave,

    I should add that many "best London" movements originated in the Liverpool area anyway. The differences in the case designs mentioned earlier are presumably to accommodate the English style of mounting the movement on a joint so that it swings out.

    Regards,

    Graham

    "Ut tensio, sic vis" - Robert Hooke

  12. #27
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    North Wales, UK
    Posts
    2,232

    Default Re: 1860's Fusee in 18KT CONVERTIBLE case , runs fine, would like input! (By: gmorse)

    Precisely one of the reasons why I would make my choice Graham, plus the fact that I have more interest in the SW Lancashire trade than that of the London end. For me this Joseph Johnson movement has panache, it is flamboyant whilst at the same time being elegant and just as well made as anything from London during the 2nd quarter of the 19thC. I don't know if the 'Liverpool windows' were intended to have a function other than to secure a pivot but these movements are certainly easier to examine internally because of the additional light that they introduce between the plates; must have been very useful when there was only natural light to illuminate your bench.

  13. #28
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    North Wales, UK
    Posts
    2,232

    Default Re: 1860's Fusee in 18KT CONVERTIBLE case , runs fine, would like input! (By: DaveyG)

    Now that I have the full story - from all three threads about this watch - I understand Tom's comment a #16. I also understand the reason for all three threads

  14. #29

    Default Re: 1860's Fusee in 18KT CONVERTIBLE case , runs fine, would like input!

    To All who contributed to helping me to learn a lot more about this watch than I knew a week ago ---- A BIG thank you! I still have a bit of a puzzle to work on, but that's a good thing --- keeps the brain limber!
    PiersLawrence
    In the end, time makes fools of us all...some more than others.'

Similar Threads

  1. A. Rossel minute repeating and cased pocket watch in 18kt Help
    By miaggi2 in forum European & Other Pocket Watches
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 10-27-2015, 03:16 PM
  2. Cronómetro supremo in a "convertible" fogel case
    By jjea in forum American Pocket Watches
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 11-29-2014, 06:45 PM
  3. small numbers in Pocket Watch cases
    By VisionAirey in forum American Pocket Watches
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 01-18-2007, 09:27 PM
  4. Replies: 5
    Last Post: 06-26-2005, 02:18 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •