Goal: $300, Received: $55.00 (18%) Contribute Now
Donate whatever you can or Join the 14,000 other NAWCC members for only $80 (plus $10 for hard copy publications). Check it out here.

Results 1 to 14 of 14
  1. #1

    Default Which rinse for this method?

    Hey everyone, so I am going to begin cleaning up some watches. I am using 100% mineral spirits in a glass beaker in an ultrasonic as my clean. I am also trying to decide whether to use IPA or pure Naphtha as a rinse. I'd be rinsing by hand (holding with my tweezers and swishing it around for a few seconds) probably unless rinsing in the ultrasonic is better? Also, all of this stuff is reusable which I fully intend of doing however, I am trying to find some suitable air tight containers in which to store them in. I know naphtha eats through plastic and dissolves rubber... I would love some sort of container I could do my rinse in and then close it back up and what not. Any opinions or thoughts? Also, using naphtha or IPA is it necessary to manually dry them with a hairdryer or air dry is fine?

    These would be perfect especially but anyone know if they are airtight? https://www.amazon.com/ZFE-Alcohol-B...ds=benzine+cup

    I can use HDPE Nalgene bottles for mineral spirits so that's good! Naphtha will eat right through it though.
    Last edited by Spartcom5; 07-07-2017 at 12:38 AM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Which rinse for this method?

    I am leaning towards IPA as my two rinses. I can store them in some nice Nalgene bottles and pour them into a beaker and then back into the bottle. However, I know they dissolve shellac so what should I do about that? I intend on cleaning the pallet fork and balance mounted on the plate in the mineral spirits in the ultrasonic but need a rinse of some sort. Does anyone think the IPA would be reusable or done after one rinse? I ask because I know being alcohol it absorbs moisture in the air so it may only be good for two uses or so? Edit: The nalgene bottles are no good for mineral spirits.
    Last edited by Spartcom5; 07-07-2017 at 01:06 AM.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Which rinse for this method?

    Okay, through some diligent research I found that all the materials used in these jars are resistant to mineral spirits.... That's a relief https://www.mcmaster.com/#general-pu...ttles/=18e1cd5 I have learned a lot since posting. These glass jars should be good for naphtha and mineral spirits. Not sure how air tight they are but everything they are made of are scientifically proven to be resistant to both solvents. Still leaves the question which rinse should I use? Still somewhat leaning towards the IPA for the quick drying.

    Hmmmm just thought of something clever. Instead of using beakers I could just put these jars into the ultrasonic (without a lid of course) that'd would make it so I don't have to pour into a beaker and then back. But should I put the rinses in the ultrasonic or just dip and swish?
    Last edited by Spartcom5; 07-07-2017 at 01:57 AM.

  4. #4
    Registered user.
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Linköping, Sweden
    Posts
    1,854
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: Which rinse for this method? (By: Spartcom5)

    Don't use volatile or flammable liquids in an ultrasonic that I not designed to be used with them. Mineral spirits is not a viable watch cleaning solution. It an be used as a rinse but I would not rely on it for getting parts clean.

  5. #5
    Registered user.
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Linköping, Sweden
    Posts
    1,854
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: Which rinse for this method?

    Okay, so I thought I recognized the line of questions from Before. I just checked your previous thread on ultrasonic cleaners. Most of the questions you asked here were answered there. Please refer to my previous explanation about why drying in room temp is not viable. Also the comments about using commercially available Watch cleaning solutions.

    Yes, putting jars with liquid into a US tank with water in it will work and save you the hassle of changing liquids. I'm sure that if you had applied some of your research to this forum you would have found that out as it has been discussed almost every time a discussion about ultrasonic cleaners has popped up.
    Looking back on it I even suggested it in your previous thread. Smaller containers inside the US tank. Maybe read the responses people put together for you a bit more carefully?

  6. #6
    Registered User gmorse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Breamore, Hampshire, UK
    Posts
    6,942
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: Which rinse for this method? (By: Spartcom5)

    Hi Spartcom5,

    As far as I'm aware, high density polyethylene, (HDPE), isn't affected by most solvents, and certainly not naphtha, (Colemans, lighter fuel, what have you), which is why it's widely used for containers holding them.

    Mineral spirits is a component of most commercial watch cleaning fluids, together with soap-like substances and often other solvents such as xylene. These are formulated to act in several ways and do a far better cleaning job than any straight solvent. If you use the same manufacturer's rinses there will be no compatibility problems and these generally dry very quickly without marking and don't affect shellac. If you use the storage containers to float in the ultrasonic it will save you having to decant into beakers, but each time you use them you'll be building the contamination levels. I use smaller containers to float in the water I've filled the ultrasonic with, and I don't re-use the cleaner again. For rinsing I use two separate containers, the first is rinse used once before and the second is fresh, and they're all put in the ultrasonic water bath in the same way as the cleaner. I then discard the first rinse and use the second rinse as the first the next time around.

    Regards,

    Graham

    "Ut tensio, sic vis" - Robert Hooke

  7. #7

    Default Re: Which rinse for this method?

    Quote Originally Posted by karlmansson View Post
    Okay, so I thought I recognized the line of questions from Before. I just checked your previous thread on ultrasonic cleaners. Most of the questions you asked here were answered there. Please refer to my previous explanation about why drying in room temp is not viable. Also the comments about using commercially available Watch cleaning solutions.

    Yes, putting jars with liquid into a US tank with water in it will work and save you the hassle of changing liquids. I'm sure that if you had applied some of your research to this forum you would have found that out as it has been discussed almost every time a discussion about ultrasonic cleaners has popped up.
    Looking back on it I even suggested it in your previous thread. Smaller containers inside the US tank. Maybe read the responses people put together for you a bit more carefully?
    Hey, thanks. I never saw putting jars into the machine. I just Thought it was to put a beaker into the machine. A lot of the research I have been doing was to find the best storage solution for these solvents, maybe a waste of time, but at least I know they'll be safe in storage. I'll go back and read the last thread a little more carefully. This thread was mainly asking is naphtha or IPA a better rinse? Reading on though it looks like I may be better off just buying LR cleaner and rinse..... So is there any difference between ammoniated vs non ammoniated? Is one better than the other?
    Last edited by Spartcom5; 07-07-2017 at 06:26 AM.

  8. #8
    Registered user.
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Linköping, Sweden
    Posts
    1,854
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: Which rinse for this method?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spartcom5 View Post
    Reading on though it looks like I may be better off just buying LR cleaner and rinse..... So is there any difference between ammoniated vs non ammoniated? Is one better than the other?
    That is probably your safest bet.

    Regarding which rinse is the best, here is what I wrote in your previous thread:
    "Regarding the IPA you mainly need it for when you are using water based cleaners such as the guy in the blog you linked to. Alcohols are hygroscopic, meaning they wick out water from wherever it's hiding in order to dilute themselves. So to prevent rust or residue from water drying on the parts, you use alcohol to remove the water and rinse the parts. The next step needs to be drying in hot air."

    In my experience, ammonia has a brightening effect on gold platings and brass plates as well as contributing to the cleaning action. However, I've yet to see a cleaning solution that is ammoniated that isn't water based.
    Last edited by karlmansson; 07-07-2017 at 07:37 AM.

  9. #9
    Registered User gmorse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Breamore, Hampshire, UK
    Posts
    6,942
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: Which rinse for this method? (By: karlmansson)

    Hi Karl,

    Quote Originally Posted by karlmansson
    ..However, I've yet to see a cleaning solution that is ammoniated that isn't water based...
    L&R 111, Extra Fine and Nofome are all waterless ammoniated cleaners.

    Regards,

    Graham

    "Ut tensio, sic vis" - Robert Hooke

  10. #10
    Registered user.
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Linköping, Sweden
    Posts
    1,854
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: Which rinse for this method? (By: gmorse)

    Quote Originally Posted by gmorse View Post
    Hi Karl,



    L&R 111, Extra Fine and Nofome are all waterless ammoniated cleaners.

    Regards,

    Graham
    Did not know that! Thanks for the info.

    Can you shed some more light on what ammonia does during cleaning, Graham?

  11. #11

    Default Re: Which rinse for this method? (By: karlmansson)

    Zenith #67 is also ammoniated. Also waterless. I think the ammonia compounds remove tarnish - I know that gilded plates and brass wheels always come out brighter.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Which rinse for this method?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spartcom5 View Post
    Hey, thanks. I never saw putting jars into the machine. I just Thought it was to put a beaker into the machine. A lot of the research I have been doing was to find the best storage solution for these solvents, maybe a waste of time, but at least I know they'll be safe in storage. I'll go back and read the last thread a little more carefully. This thread was mainly asking is naphtha or IPA a better rinse? Reading on though it looks like I may be better off just buying LR cleaner and rinse..... So is there any difference between ammoniated vs non ammoniated? Is one better than the other?
    Yes, that makes it all a whole lot simpler. L&R makes solutions specifically for use in ultrasonics, and of course you want to use a beaker/jar in the tank, rather than filling it with each solution in turn (what a nightmare THAT would be!)

    Thing is, you can't buy less than a gallon, and it'll run you $60. If that's not a problem, go for it! You can save some money on the rinse, since everyone's rinse is basically some version or other of mineral spirits - medium-long hydrocarbons. I wouldn't rinse in a polar solvent like any alcohol after washing in a completely nonpolar solvent. AND you don't have to worry about the roller and pallet jewels falling out. As Karl indicated, alcohols are good for removing water from water-based wash solutions, but if you're using waterless, you don't need to worry about that.

    I use Zenith solutions in my L&R Master. Their #67 Watch Cleaning Solution is ammoniated but without any strong odor.

    L&R have ammoniated and non-ammoniated cleaners, and they say the non-ammoniated is for use where the ammonia smell is a problem. If you're working in a well-ventilated area (and you should be), that might not be an issue, and the ammoniation will remove tarnish and leave your plates and wheels bright and shiny. Important, if you work on a lot of gilded movements, like I'm doing lately.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Which rinse for this method?

    Thanks everyone. I have learned a ton of information the past couple days and have TONS of stuff I need to buy. If I decided to dry the parts after rinse to insure dryness, would putting the parts in a strainer over a bucket and blowing them dry with a hairdryer work? Actually sounds like a really good idea recommended to me by a fellow watchmaker! Also, can I safely assume the LR clean+rise is safe on shellac? Next, it isn't BAD to reuse the cleaner a couple times if your not cleaning really dirty watches? What do you all use to store dirty cleaner, what are the LR jugs made of? Finally, on those older gold plated pocket watch movements should I hand clean those things since US machines can strip the plating?

    Edit: I know the initial clean should be 5-10 minutes in the US using LR cleaner, but how long should each rinse be? Less than 5 minutes each?
    Last edited by Spartcom5; 07-07-2017 at 09:41 PM.

  14. #14
    Registered user.
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Linköping, Sweden
    Posts
    1,854
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: Which rinse for this method? (By: Spartcom5)

    You can reuse your cleaner but it will lose power as it accumulates dirt and oils. The purpose of the rinse is to get rid of the dirty cleaner that has coated the movement. This is another benefit of the agitation type machine or dedicated watch cleaning machine with ultrasonic. You have a spin off cycle that centrifuges most of the fluids off of the parts before you move on to the next jar.
    When you use container inside the US, any soft containers like plastic will detract from the power as the plastic absorbs the energy of the sound waves. If you use metal or glass containers it will transmit the waves more efficiently.

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 5
    Last Post: 03-29-2012, 05:24 PM
  2. Whats for this horological tool?
    By cucoclock in forum Horological Tools
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 01-29-2007, 07:54 AM
  3. Looking for this kind of clock...
    By dainagon in forum Clocks General.
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 10-22-2006, 04:00 AM
  4. Need movement for this Linden
    By Gordon Andersen in forum Clock Repair
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 03-23-2006, 07:06 AM
  5. What key for this clock?
    By Tom Chaudoir in forum Clocks General.
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 09-02-2003, 11:32 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •