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  1. #1

    Default Seth Thomas Adamantine help

    Hi all,
    I have this clock which I brought rather cheaply and it seem s to be complete. I'm not sure of the movement although I think it is a ST #44. Anyways the clock is not working. the "Chimes" work meaning the gears are free to bang away. The other SPRING seems fully winded but does not move the gear train. the pendulum swings freely and the one or two gears that are directly behind that move. I don't know anything really about working on clocks although I would love to learn. Any ideas on what may be wrong or any ideas on how to get this beauty working again. I believe from the stamp on the underside it is dated 1901.

    thanks!
    David
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  2. #2

    Default Re: Seth Thomas Adamantine help (By: David Dikun)

    Your clock's movement needs to be taken apart and serviced. They usually need a few bushings and the springs need to be hand cleaned and inspected. This is an excellent movement but it needs some TLC.
    Willie X

  3. #3

    Default Re: Seth Thomas Adamantine help

    Willie is right, the movement would benefit from some attention. It also looks to me as though the retention arm over the verge may be resting against the verge/saddle itself. I can't be sure, but it kind of looks that way in your 2nd photo. The black arm needs to rest on the pin which goes through the verge saddle. If it doesn't, the verge can't swing freely as it needs to and the movement definitely will not run.


    Here's a video of a similar set up (different manufacturer) which shows the recoil escapement properly set up and in action:
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by Time After Time; 07-06-2017 at 12:48 PM. Reason: Video


  4. #4

    Default Re: Seth Thomas Adamantine help (By: Time After Time)

    Thank you, could it be something as simple as that black pin out of place to make a clock stop? What is the pin called? and what does it do?

  5. #5

    Default Re: Seth Thomas Adamantine help

    Quote Originally Posted by David Dikun View Post
    Thank you, could it be something as simple as that black pin out of place to make a clock stop? What is the pin called? and what does it do?
    I call it a retention wire. Not certain what the "formal" name for it is. It keeps the bent-strip verge in place without causing too much friction or interference with its movement. Did you look at the video I posted? It's all shown right there.

    P.S. I'm not certain that is the problem. From your photo that looks like it might be an issue. As Willie mentioned to you, your movement probably needs some attention in the form of a proper servicing. Good luck with it.
    Last edited by Time After Time; 07-06-2017 at 04:39 PM. Reason: P.S.


  6. #6

    Default Re: Seth Thomas Adamantine help (By: David Dikun)

    Quote Originally Posted by David Dikun View Post
    Hi all,
    Anyways the clock is not working. the "Chimes" work meaning the gears are free to bang away. The other SPRING seems fully winded but does not move the gear train. the pendulum swings freely and the one or two gears that are directly behind that move. I don't know anything really about working on clocks although I would love to learn.

    thanks!
    David
    Looks like you have a very nice clock in probably better than average condition. I believe your first decision is are you ready to make a commitment (lots of time and some dollars) to learn how to repair clocks like this one, or are you going to send it out to be repaired? If you're going to send it out please do the repair person a favor and send it just like it is now without monkeying with it. It will save the shop time and save you money in the long run.


    As for what may be wrong, 100+ years of wear, an accumulation of dirt, and probably lack of oil. The fact that you see several gears (wheels) turning is a good sign. In order for the clock to run the spring must deliver enough power to the escapement to keep the pendulum swinging. When that doesn't happen the problem can be a single broken part, or excessive friction due to a number of worn parts or parts without lubrication. The problem is almost never just an adjustment and monkeying around with the adjustments often serves no purpose other than to add additional problems. So let us know what you plan to do. There are a few unusual things about this movement but it isn't especially difficult to service, and a lot of people here are able to guide you IF you want to make the commitment to fix it right.

    RC

  7. #7

    Default Re: Seth Thomas Adamantine help

    What you have is a Seth Thomas Mantel Clock called their Larkin No. 722 Model. It was manufactured by Seth Thomas for the Larkin Soap Company, which offered it to the public as a "Free" incentive reward campaign to sell more of their soap. The Adamantine finish usually ages well and can clean up very nicely (with care!).
    Here's a view of a Seth Thomas No. 44 "Hip" movement with the retention wire properly placed over the Verge Pin. The photo is a little blurry but if you look closely, and then compare it to yours, you'll see what I mean.


    Here's another view of the movement on a test stand after I overhauled it. Again, looks closely at the verge set up:


    Here's the case before clean up:


    And After clean up:


    Here's a copy of the Larkin Soap Catalog Ad:



    There are a LOT of these clocks still around so the Larkin Incentive campaign must have been very successful. They are nice looking, nicely proportioned clocks with good, reliable movements. Their strike is very pleasant and sounds much "bigger" than the clock's size. Even though they are somewhat common antiques, I think they are still a valued model to antique clock collections...especially new collectors since they are generally not very expensive. If you want to restore the clock yourself, you can find a lot of help on this message board. As RC states, it will require resources in terms of time and expense, but there are a lot of experienced folks here who can point you in the right direction. If this is the only antique clock you intend to acquire, you might be better off sending it to someone who is experience and equipped to do a good job for you. Good luck and enjoy your antique Seth Thomas.
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  8. #8

    Default Re: Seth Thomas Adamantine help (By: Time After Time)

    thanks for the info.
    Should I clean the bronze fixtures?

  9. #9

    Default Re: Seth Thomas Adamantine help (By: David Dikun)

    Quote Originally Posted by David Dikun View Post
    thanks for the info.
    Should I clean the bronze fixtures?
    You're welcome.
    For detailed guidance on cleaning/restoring Adamantine Cases see this link: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B6...jkycHo4YzVOVVU


  10. #10
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    Default Re: Seth Thomas Adamantine help

    If TAT's suggestion doesn't work, it might be that the main
    spring is stuck.
    I'm a little worried about the main spring for the time side. It looks
    to be wound tight as you've noted.
    It may have been wound so long that the layers are glued
    together ( old dry grease and maybe some light rust ).
    This condition is dangerous for both you and the clock.
    The movement otherwise looks fine.
    If it is a glues spring, you should be able to easily wiggle a
    the wheels in the time train a little as there would be no
    power on them.
    Get a gallon of karosene. Use a bucket and place the entire
    movement in it, such that the karosene is covering the spring.
    Put it in a safe place, away from things like water heater
    pilot lights with something to cover it ( not in the house ).
    Let it soak for few days to a week and then see if the rocking the
    crutch doesn't cause it to escape.
    Tinker Dwight

  11. #11

    Default Re: Seth Thomas Adamantine help (By: Tinker Dwight)

    Thankyou Tinker, yes I'm afraid to mess around with the main spring as it could be dangerous. I will take your advice and soak the movement. I can wiggle some of the gears (wheels) close to the top, but the bigger wheels at the bottom don't move and have no play. I made the mistake of winding it a bit more, but it was already wound tight so I did not do much.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Seth Thomas Adamantine help (By: Time After Time)

    Nice clock, TAT!
    1. Check out the Repair Hints & How-To's forum. You may find your answer there.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Seth Thomas Adamantine help

    Thank you bangster. We gave it as a gift to our daughter and son-in-law.


  14. #14
    Registered user.
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    Default Re: Seth Thomas Adamantine help (By: Time After Time)

    If you can't wiggle the second wheel, it most likely has power.
    Soaking it will do no serious harm but I'm thinking that TAT may
    be right. The spring piece should be on top of the arbor and
    not to the side.
    If you do soak it, it will require re-oiling the springs and movement
    as a minimum.
    It will strip any oil from the movement.
    Tinker Dwight

  15. #15

    Default Re: Seth Thomas Adamantine help (By: Tinker Dwight)

    I removed the movement from the case, and noticed as I turned it upside down it started to work. Then right side up it was working.. when I say working I mean at least there was movement. When I hang the pendulum on the weight of it stops it completely. Any ideas?

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