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  1. #1

    Default French boulle mantle clock any info on maker and age

    Hello members
    Could anyone give me some info on my french boulle mantle clock? It has the letters JB.D in oval lozenge and Payne &co 163 New Bond st London stamped on the brass plate on the back. and how old it may be?

    Many Thanks Guido.
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  2. #2

    Default Re: French boulle mantle clock any info on maker and age (By: gsmoggy@hotmail.com)

    I have moved this thread to the Clocks General forum where it properly belongs.
    “If one tells the truth, one is sure, sooner or later, to be found out.” - Oscar Wilde

  3. #3
    Registered user. jmclaugh's Avatar
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    Default Re: French boulle mantle clock any info on maker and age (By: Steven Thornberry)

    Very nice clock. I would think JBD is Jean Baptiste Delettrez who is listed in Paris, Rue de Berry au Marais 1850, Rue Charlot 1870 and London 1863-75.

    William Payne is first recorded at 62 South Moulton Street London in 1816. By 1825 he has moved to 163 New Bond Street where the company remains until the 20th century.
    Jonathan.

  4. #4

    Default Re: French boulle mantle clock any info on maker and age (By: jmclaugh)

    I have an early carriage clock by Delletrez, signed Delletrez, so I doubt the mark would be his. He went into partnership with Brocot, perfected the "Brocot" escapement, and made calendar clocks signed Brocot and Delletrez for a long time before the partnership broke. Rue Charlotte and Rue Berry are the same, the street name changed.

  5. #5

    Default Re: French boulle mantle clock any info on maker and age (By: zedric)

    FWIW (and considering the source, perhaps a large cellar of salt is needed?), this Wikipedia article seems to confirm that it is Jean-Baptiste Delletrez.
    “If one tells the truth, one is sure, sooner or later, to be found out.” - Oscar Wilde

  6. #6

    Default Re: French boulle mantle clock any info on maker and age (By: Steven Thornberry)

    Well there you go, you learn something new every day. As the article states, it would have been a later clock by him, so some time after 1878.

  7. #7

    Default Re: French boulle mantle clock any info on maker and age (By: zedric)

    Looking back on my notes when I bought my carriage clock by Delettrez, this is what I found (I was looking at his early work, as the movement of the carriage clock seems to be an early one by Henri Jacot ). It may be of interest to others?

    "In the 1847 “Annuaire général du commerce” Delettrez was advertising as the “Successor to Rouilly and Hooker”. His advert listed bronzes, clocks, candelabras, and all types of clockwork, especially large, table clocks and all music, watches from Geneva, Switzerland and Bessacon…” Rouilly and Hooker were advertising in 1845, and Rouilly on his own in 1846 (with the same description of their shop, so the “specialists in large clocks” in the advert presumably refers to Rouilly and Hooker rather than Delletrez). Judging from the advertising, the hand-over to Delettrez took place some time between 1845 and 1847. From the 1838 Allmanach it seems that maybe Rouilly partnered with Hooker around 1838, as Rouilly and Hooker were listed in 1838, as well as Guyerdert (jeune) and Rouilly – although this could be a brother or cousin… Of note, the name Guyerdet (the elder, not the younger) appears on early Paul Garnier clocks.

    From Gallica, Delettrez was advertising as making bronzes and clocks for export from Rue Berry 12 (in the Marais district) in 1851/52. It seems that he moved his shop when setting up in partnership with Brocot, although not very far. His address was noted as being “Charlot 62, Ancienne rue Berry-Marais-12”. In fact, Rue Charlot was extended and re-numbered in 1851 by re-naming three former streets - rue d'Orléans, rue de Berri (Berry) and rue d'Angoumois. The old address, Rue Berry 12, would have become Rue Charlot 26. The re-numbered Rue Charlot 62 would have been no 18 before the change, and is where JB Beguin had his workshop before his death in 1847."

  8. #8

    Default Re: French boulle mantle clock any info on maker and age (By: zedric)

    Hi Zedric Thank you for all the great info .I am a bit confused ,a clock dealer with a lot of experience has told me that Delettrez was a wholesaler and not a maker. he suggested that my clock movement is probably made by Jappy. what do the members think about this idear.? regards Guido.

  9. #9

    Default Re: French boulle mantle clock any info on maker and age (By: gsmoggy@hotmail.com)

    The French clockmaking industry in the 19th century relied on a wide variety of component makers, with the "clock maker" basically assembling them and finishing them - so movements would be made by the large companies such as Japy Freres, springs by another company, dials by another, hands, cases etc by others.

    So the clock movement may we'll be by Japy, but that doesn't mean that Delletrez was a wholesaler. He was definitely a maker, and quite inventive, as shown by his partnership with Brocot, where they introduced a new style of clock, and made advances in escapement design (basically perfecting an earlier Brocot design).

    your clock would have been made after his partnership with Brocot ceased. By then he would have been in his sixties, and most likely would have employed others to do some of the actual manufacturing. It is possible that at this stage of his career he was also buying in finished clocks from others, but I have not seen anything about this in my research (although I focussed on his early career, so would not necessarily have seen it).

  10. #10
    Registered user. jmclaugh's Avatar
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    Default Re: French boulle mantle clock any info on maker and age (By: zedric)

    I agree with Zedric that Delletrez was much much more than a wholesaler. Many esteemed French clockmakers bought in roulants (unfinished movements) and finished them. To describe them as wholesalers really misses the point and denigrates the skilled role of a finisher of such roulants.
    Jonathan.

  11. #11

    Default Re: French boulle mantle clock any info on maker and age (By: zedric)

    Hi Zedric
    Thanks for the detailed info about Delletrez. That makes me a lot happier as i said to the clock dealer if it was made by Jappy ,why is their name not on it. You have explained it well. Are their any clock case makers recorded? as I feel the case is earlier than 1878 .Is it the original movement? I have been an antique furniture restore for over 40 years and have never see such a fine quality case .I am i the process of restoring it which will take about 1-1/2 weeks. I will post images of it when it is finished.
    Last edited by gsmoggy@hotmail.com; 06-21-2017 at 07:13 AM.

  12. #12

    Default Re: French boulle mantle clock any info on maker and age (By: jmclaugh)

    Thanks jmclaugh for your in put .as i am more a furniture person than a clock person it is great to have all this great knowledge on line .I do realise I fell in love with the case and that the movement is nothing startling .as i said to Zedric it is a pity case makers were not recorded ,when there is such skill in their construction.

  13. #13

    Default Re: French boulle mantle clock any info on maker and age (By: gsmoggy@hotmail.com)

    There are some case makers recorded - but most are makers of bronzes who left their trademark on the case, or it he case of earlier clocks had recognisable designs. For example, L Lange made carriage clock cases, and if you look at the records of the brassfounders union, or the trade directories of the day, you will find a few clock case makers listed.

    As for wooden cases, these are much harder to trace to the maker, but you mentioned the "boulle" style, and in fact Boulle, who had workshops in Paris and made his name for brass inlay into tortoise shell, was a known maker of clock cases, although almost all cases describes as boulle are in the style of, rather than by him. Wooden case makers are not well recorded, mainly because they left no trademarks on their cases.

  14. #14

    Default Re: French boulle mantle clock any info on maker and age (By: zedric)

    Thanks Zedric thanks for all your info.I agree with you that my clock case is a victorian copy in the style of Andre Charles Boulle 1645- 1732. the inventor of the process .while restoring the case I am amazed at the quality of the workmanship and fine detail of the intricate patterns of the brass and tortoise shell work and also the engraving on the brass.I realize they cut the brass and tortoise shell together ,the very fine saws they used must have been designed to follow some sort of mechanical system ,I do not feel it was done free hand like i am doing today.I feel my clock was made in a factory where the knowledge was handed down through the generations from Andre Boulle's days. Thanks for your help. Guido.

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