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  1. #1
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    Default 341-020 Clock Movement Won't Chime - Howard Miller - Newbie - Any Advice Welcome

    Hello!

    I have inherited my grandfather's Howard Miller Wall Clock (Model No. 612-462) that he received in 1985 for 35 years at his work. The clock has movement no 354009E on the back sticker...but inside the movement is 341-020 35mm. First question... does it appear the clock movement has been replaced at some point?

    The clock has 3 winding points and the center one is able to be wound and works the clock (which I have set to keep the proper time). The other two winding points were able to be wound (with effort) approximately 1/2 a turn before they appear to be wound completely. They do not appear to unwind as the clock runs and therefore the clock does not chime with its Westminster Chimes as it should.

    I have looked for a 'silent' switch and I do not see one. Does this clock have one? The only movable lever in the unit appears to be the 'hammer hold down bar'. I have tried that in the raised and lowered position and it does not seem to make a difference.

    Two other things I've noticed are that the clock 'clicks' on the quarter hour (at 12, 3, 6, and 9) which sounds like it's trying to start the chimes. Also the middle hammer (of the 5) is slightly higher (possible stuck/frozen in the raised position?)

    Please provide any advice. I would love to have the option to have the chimes if at all possible.

    Thank you,

    nlitend1

  2. #2

    Default Re: 341-020 Clock Movement Won't Chime - Howard Miller - Newbie - Any Advice Welcome (By: nlitend1)

    Try pressing down on the right side weight as you turn the minute hand. That might give you some satisfaction at least temporarily. The movement is still made and is not that expensive. That might be the easiest way to go on a 30 year old movement.
    A man with a clock always knows the time. A man with two clocks is never sure.

  3. #3

    Default Re: 341-020 Clock Movement Won't Chime - Howard Miller - Newbie - Any Advice Welcome (By: nlitend1)

    Give us a picture of the back of the movement.

    Welcome to the MESSAGE BOARD.
    1. Check out the Repair Hints & How-To's forum. You may find your answer there.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: 341-020 Clock Movement Won't Chime - Howard Miller - Newbie - Any Advice Welcome (By: nlitend1)

    In order to strike the chime sequence must go first.
    Wear is usually most noticed in the chime and strike before
    the time.
    It sounds like it may need some work. Do keep in mind that
    a replacement movement may be a best option.
    I see no reason to think the current movement has been replaced
    in the past. A 1985 Hermele movement of that age is over due for
    servicing.
    Tinker Dwight

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    Default Re: 341-020 Clock Movement Won't Chime - Howard Miller - Newbie - Any Advice Welcome (By: Tinker Dwight)

    Wow! What a great forum! 3 replies already?! Thanks guys.
    @ Shutterbug - this is a spring driven (winding) clock - i don't think i can press down on weights with it
    @ Bangster - see below, and thanks!
    @ Tinker Dwight - I see a sticker in the clock from a service agency that guaranteed it through 2002. The sticker has some writing on it that says "m/s only" (i'm assuming that means "mainspring only"?

    Thank you,

    nlitend1
    Click image for larger version. 

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  6. #6
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    Default Re: 341-020 Clock Movement Won't Chime - Howard Miller - Newbie - Any Advice Welcome (By: nlitend1)

    Two things that are immediately obvious is that the pendulum is not installed and that the suspension spring that holds the pendulum is bent. This is fairly common and caused by the clock being moved with the pendulum still hooked to the fragile suspension spring. It may be possible to bend the suspension spring back straight, but a replacement would only cost a few bucks at a local clock shop.

    Here's a picture of what the movement looks like (front sides and back). Your clock does not have a chime and strike shutoff lever, so the movement definitely needs to be cleaned and oiled or replaced, depending on how much your grandfather used the clock.
    Dave Diel

  7. #7

    Default Re: 341-020 Clock Movement Won't Chime - Howard Miller - Newbie - Any Advice Welcome (By: dad1891)

    The large wheels on the back of the movement control the chime hammers. Try applying some pressure to one of them while turning the minute hand and see if you can get it to chime. That might free things up for awhile, but a new movement is still likely in your future.
    A man with a clock always knows the time. A man with two clocks is never sure.

  8. #8
    Forums Administrator harold bain's Avatar
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    Default Re: 341-020 Clock Movement Won't Chime - Howard Miller - Newbie - Any Advice Welcome (By: nlitend1)

    The clock's movement was made in 1985, so it should be original. These movements are still made, so if you feel comfortable taking the movement out of the case, replacing it is your best option cost wise. Otherwise you should find a local repairman to work on it for you.
    harold bain, Member ch 33
    "If it won't "tick",
    let me "tock" to it"

  9. #9

    Default Re: 341-020 Clock Movement Won't Chime - Howard Miller - Newbie - Any Advice Welcome (By: nlitend1)

    For this model the chime lever is the angle piece over the chime hammers. To silence the clock, simply push down on that steel angle

  10. #10
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    Default Re: 341-020 Clock Movement Won't Chime - Howard Miller - Newbie - Any Advice Welcome (By: MARK A. BUTTERWORTH)

    A closer look at the movement and it looks to be in reasonable
    shape ( one can't really tell without having is in hand ).
    It might just need a clean and oiling.
    Despite what you may have been told, such a clock can not
    be properly cleaned without disassembling. This takes time
    and no one works for free. The clock is a three train chime
    clock. It makes little difference in the size of the case, grandfather
    clock or mantle clock.
    Cleaning and oiling will be close in cost to replacing
    the movement. Looking at the picture, it doesn't look like it had
    plated pivots. 1985 was right around when they stopped doing
    this.
    If it turns out that it does have plated pivots. I'd recommend
    not wasting time and money on that movement and just have
    the movement replaced.
    Tinker Dwight

  11. #11
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    Default Re: 341-020 Clock Movement Won't Chime - Howard Miller - Newbie - Any Advice Welcome (By: Tinker Dwight)

    Quote Originally Posted by dad1891 View Post
    Two things that are immediately obvious is that the pendulum is not installed and that the suspension spring that holds the pendulum is bent. This is fairly common and caused by the clock being moved with the pendulum still hooked to the fragile suspension spring. It may be possible to bend the suspension spring back straight, but a replacement would only cost a few bucks at a local clock shop.

    Here's a picture of what the movement looks like (front sides and back). Your clock does not have a chime and strike shutoff lever, so the movement definitely needs to be cleaned and oiled or replaced, depending on how much your grandfather used the clock.
    Thanks for the images of the movement. Yes, the clock was moved by another family member. Those pictures were taken when i first had the clock. I removed the pendulum and straightened everything out. The clock keeps good time now.

    Quote Originally Posted by shutterbug View Post
    The large wheels on the back of the movement control the chime hammers. Try applying some pressure to one of them while turning the minute hand and see if you can get it to chime. That might free things up for awhile, but a new movement is still likely in your future.
    Looking at the clock face (standing in front of the clock) do you know if i should try to move the 'large wheels' clockwise or counter-clockwise and would you suggest moving the minute hand clockwise or counter-clockwise (I read somewhere where the minute hand should only ever be moved backwards..so I've been doing that when setting the time. Also, should I be applying pressure when the minute hand passses the quarter hours in attempt to make it chime then?

    Also... on the top of the movement are two "paddle wheel' looking pieces that I believe are supposed to turn slowly with the chime and strike movement. At one point I saw the one on the right side move slowly....it has since stopped... should I be moving those manually to try to free up the movements if attempting to move the large wheels does not work?



    To everyone who replied about replacing the movement - thank you. I agree it may be the most cost effective...but since my wife isn't too excited about the chimes to begin with and therefore I doubt she'd go for spending a few hundred $$ on it... and I'd rather keep the original parts if at all possible. What sort of undertaking am I looking at to try to clean and oil the clock? I am comfortable taking things apart and putting them together...but are any special tools required to do so? Is there a cleaning guide for this movement that is available?

    Thanks again. I really appreciate all of the responses.

    nlitend1

  12. #12
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    Default Re: 341-020 Clock Movement Won't Chime - Howard Miller - Newbie - Any Advice Welcome

    The paddle wheel things you see at the top of each side of the movement are simple speed governors( the flys), intended to keep the chime or strike from running too fast. Looking from the back, the one on the right is the hourly strike and the left one is the quarter hour chime. If the movement were working properly, they would be turning very fast when they ran. They are pretty delicate, and the little brass blade is intended to lightly hold the shaft it is attached too, but will slip easily if you try to turn it by hand, so I would recommend leaving it alone.

    The movements are designed so that it is impossible for the chime and strike gear trains to run at the same time. And, if one train stalls before finishing, it will block the other from being able to run, even if it is otherwise capable. I think this is likely what has happened to yours. Since you said the right side "fly" turned a little, I think your strike is probably stalled. With the minute hand positioned 3 or 4 minutes after the hour, manually pick up the hammers. This relieves the pressure on the gear train and might get it running. If that doesn't work, pick up the hammers with one hand, and insert the key on that side and put just a little winding pressure on it with the other hand. Don't strong arm it to the point of breaking something, but enough pressure to supplement the spring. Sometimes this might break the train free enough to get it to "limp" along to finish it's strike. If it does, this will verify the need for proper servicing.
    Last edited by Randy Beckett; 06-16-2017 at 02:38 AM.
    "Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws."- Plato (428 - 348 BC)

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    Default Re: 341-020 Clock Movement Won't Chime - Howard Miller - Newbie - Any Advice Welcome

    Quote Originally Posted by nlitend1 View Post
    Hello!







    . Also the middle hammer (of the 5) is slightly higher (possible stuck/frozen in the raised position?)



    nlitend1

    This statement from your original post also suggests that the chime train is the one that is in fact stalled, so the same instructions would be used to try to free it up. If it is stalled without finishing, it would be blocking the strike train from running.

    Removing the movement from the case should be pretty straight forward. Remove the hands first. The minute hand is held on with a nut, and the hour hand is just a friction fit on it's shaft. The movement itself will be held in with little screws at it's four corners. It looks like the movement won't come out the access hole that you took the pictures through, but there should be a removable panel on the back so it can be removed. It doesn't look like the chime rods will need to be removed.
    Last edited by Randy Beckett; 06-16-2017 at 08:14 AM.
    "Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws."- Plato (428 - 348 BC)

  14. #14

    Default Re: 341-020 Clock Movement Won't Chime - Howard Miller - Newbie - Any Advice Welcome (By: nlitend1)

    I am puzzled as to why you are turning the minute hand backwards when setting the time?? That is not a good idea, unless you are just talking about a few minutes correction. Perhaps you meant to write forwards (clockwise)?

    If the clock needs to be corrected more than a few minutes, you should turn the minute hand forwards, letting the chime work at the quarters etc. before moving on.

    But perhaps I have misunderstood you.

    JTD

  15. #15
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    Default Re: 341-020 Clock Movement Won't Chime - Howard Miller - Newbie - Any Advice Welcome (By: nlitend1)

    To everyone who replied about replacing the movement - thank you. I agree it may be the most cost effective...but since my wife isn't too excited about the chimes to begin with and therefore I doubt she'd go for spending a few hundred $$ on it... and I'd rather keep the original parts if at all possible. What sort of undertaking am I looking at to try to clean and oil the clock? I am comfortable taking things apart and putting them together...but are any special tools required to do so? Is there a cleaning guide for this movement that is available?
    How much spare time do you have to learn clock repair? You will need such things as a let down tool to let the springs down before taking it apart, a spring winder to properly service the mainsprings, possibly tools to install bushing as needed. You can't learn enough about clock repair on a Saturday morning to be able to fix the clock in the afternoon.
    harold bain, Member ch 33
    "If it won't "tick",
    let me "tock" to it"

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