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  1. #1

    Default A precice punch job.

    I am working on a c1890 Ansonia long drop school clock. A previous repairer evidently marked the worn side of each hole with a big "X" and then took the clock apart. Then that repairer used a small round punch to upset the metal back toward the hole and broached the hole, polished pivots, etc. The punch depth varied from hole to hole. You can see the deepest punch mark in the hole that I rebushed.
    I'm not advocating this method in any way but it is a 50 year old repair! And, the clock is actually still running. The strike spring broke and the customer really missed the striking. I would have respect for this repair person.
    Willie X Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Willie X; 05-18-2017 at 10:05 PM.

  2. #2
    Registered user. THTanner's Avatar
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    Default Re: A precice punch job. (By: Willie X)

    I notice that each of the punch marks hits on the X leg pointing right at the pivot hole. Apparently the X'es were not just marking which one to work, but also which way to work the metal toward the hole.

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie X View Post
    I am working on a c1890 Ansonia long drop school clock. A previous repairer evidently marked the worn side of each hole with a big "X" and then took the clock apart. Then that repairer used a small round punch to upset the metal back toward the hole and broached the hole, polished pivots, etc. The punch depth varied from hole to hole. You can see the deepest punch mark in the hole that I rebushed.
    I'm not advocating this method in any way but it is a 50 year old repair! And, the clock is actually still running. The strike spring broke and the customer really missed the striking. I would have respect for this repair person.
    Willie X
    You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. - The Great One

  3. #3

    Default Re: A precice punch job. (By: Willie X)

    These clocks have no eyes and tend to be rather tolerant of all the use and abuse they have often experienced over the past 100 or so years. Still there is no reason to mark things up with such scratches when a pencil or wax marker would have done just as well.

    RC

  4. #4

    Default Re: A precice punch job. (By: THTanner)

    They sure are a long way from the hole!
    A man with a clock always knows the time. A man with two clocks is never sure.

  5. #5

    Default Re: A precice punch job.

    One of my brothers and his friends took my dad's 1953 Martin guitar to the beach one day, and scratched the face with a pick... a lot. The guitar still sounds great, but the damage was thoughtless and unnecessary... and permanent.

    i've learned a lot in these forums, starting with 'do no harm'. it's taken me a while to get to the point where I can make repairs without doing harm and leave no trace on the rice paper (kung fu tv show reference)... but it took me a while to know better. I can think of two bushings in particular that are looser than they should be (i.e., at all) that need to be revisited... but at least they can they can be .

    The person capable of doing those repairs would've/should've known better... and cared more. imhno (in my humble newbie opinion)

    i love that guitar… which I inherited… but it still hurts when I look at the scratches. I felt the same way when I looked at this photo
    i collect antique clocks because i get all that extra time...

  6. #6

    Default Re: A precice punch job. (By: smike)

    Check out Willie Nelson's Martin and you'll feel better.
    1. Check out the Repair Hints & How-To's forum. You may find your answer there.

  7. #7
    Registered user. roughbarked's Avatar
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    Default Re: A precice punch job.

    Quote Originally Posted by THTanner View Post
    I notice that each of the punch marks hits on the X leg pointing right at the pivot hole. Apparently the X'es were not just marking which one to work, but also which way to work the metal toward the hole.
    This was how my master showed me how to do it. Put your X in the right spot first. Not that I do it if the clock is worth bushing.

    Pencil and wax come off after cleaning. You make the mark then you clean it. If you are going to hit it with a punch, a few scratches are minor.

    Yeah, seriously a guitar like a book is meant to be used. Willie Nelson and others have worn their guitars through but others have patched theirs.

  8. #8

    Default Re: A precice punch job. (By: bangster)

    Quote Originally Posted by bangster View Post
    Check out Willie Nelson's Martin and you'll feel better.

    willie's guitar... 'trigger'... shows wear and tear from usage over time... 30 years or so of being played every single day. the damage to my (dad's) guitar was done in minutes by kids who didn't know better.... thoughtless, needless and permanent scarring.

    I may not do as good a job as you all when restoring or repairing movements, but I sure as heck try my hardest to have my efforts be non-destructive.

    is anyone really advocating approaching repair like that? Saying that that's OK? that's not a picture i'd put on my website if I were a professional clock repairer.

    guess it touched a nerve. 8-)
    i collect antique clocks because i get all that extra time...

  9. #9
    Registered user. roughbarked's Avatar
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    Default Re: A precice punch job. (By: smike)

    I was shown how and why these repairs were done. I wasn't told that it was the best repair I could effect though.

  10. #10
    Registered User John P's Avatar
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    Default Re: A precice punch job. (By: roughbarked)

    Having seen those punch marks many times, we tend to look down on that repair person and his or her method of tightening up a loose bushing.

    Perhaps they had no bushings, no drills or broaches and not a penny to spare, but they did have the common sense to figure out a repair that would save the clock from being thrown out until one of us could get to it and make the proper repair.

    Now is it fair to call them a hack? I think not, they did what they could with what they had and the results is, we still have the clock.
    God started the clock in Gen. 1:13

  11. #11
    Registered user. THTanner's Avatar
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    Default Re: A precice punch job. (By: John P)

    Well said - and I feel - correct as well. Definitely not the best solution under the best circumstances, but it got the job done and according to Willie X it lasted 50 years if I read the OP correctly. However, I do think the size and depth of the X marks are a bit much.

    Quote Originally Posted by John P View Post
    Having seen those punch marks many times, we tend to look down on that repair person and his or her method of tightening up a loose bushing.

    Perhaps they had no bushings, no drills or broaches and not a penny to spare, but they did have the common sense to figure out a repair that would save the clock from being thrown out until one of us could get to it and make the proper repair.

    Now is it fair to call them a hack? I think not, they did what they could with what they had and the results is, we still have the clock.
    You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. - The Great One

  12. #12

    Default Re: A precice punch job. (By: John P)

    I'm reading Practical Clock Repairing by Donald de Carle. I think it was recommended David LaBounty. This book has copyright & revision dates of 1946, 53, 64, & 69. At the time of its writing it seems that pre-fab bushings & the Bushing Reamer/Press Machine were a recent development. The Author & many others seemed to view this with great optimism, but many others viewed it as Witchcraft & chose to stick with the old accepted methods, one of them being Punching The Pivot Holes.

    So, while punching bushings is considered a "Hackmaster" repair at this stage of the game, at one time it seems to have been perfectly acceptable repair method. It probably lived on until the last of those taught that way, put down their last wrench.

    Just my understanding of it, as I was not a "Twinkle In My Daddies Eye" in 1946
    The man who knows how to make it work will always have a job, The man who knows why it makes it work will always be his boss.

  13. #13

    Default Re: A precice punch job. (By: roughbarked)

    Sloppy work is sloppy work regardless of how one may try to justify it.

  14. #14

    Default Re: A precice punch job.

    Quote Originally Posted by smike View Post
    One of my brothers and his friends took my dad's 1953 Martin guitar to the beach one day, and scratched the face with a pick... a lot. The guitar still sounds great, but the damage was thoughtless and unnecessary... and permanent.
    It might be worth having a certified Martin repairman take a look at it, smike. It might be that some of the scratches are just in the upper finish, and can be smoothed out. My 1963 ES335 is crazed pretty badly, but I have not attempted to try to "fix" it. But I did have a certified repairman go over it last year and put it back to factory specs. Plays quite well again.
    Last edited by shutterbug; 05-19-2017 at 09:06 AM.
    A man with a clock always knows the time. A man with two clocks is never sure.

  15. #15
    Registered user. THTanner's Avatar
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    Default Re: A precice punch job.

    I think I would put a 1953 Martin on a shelf as is - or perhaps a humidity controlled glass case.

    Quote Originally Posted by shutterbug View Post
    It might be worth having a certified Martin repairman take a look at it, smike. It might be that some of the scratches are just in the upper finish, and can be smoothed out. My 1963 ES335 is crazed pretty badly, but I have not attempted to try to "fix" it. But I did have a certified repairman go over it last year and put it back to factory specs. Plays quite well again.
    Last edited by shutterbug; 05-19-2017 at 09:07 AM. Reason: Correct my model # mistake :)
    You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. - The Great One

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