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  1. #16
    Registered User George Nelson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eli Terry Jr Eight Day Just Acquired (By: ballistarius)

    Hi, Aitor,

    I would love to see a video of you dancing on your head- quite an accomplishment!

    Curiously yours,

    George

  2. #17
    Registered User George Nelson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eli Terry Jr Eight Day Just Acquired (By: Jim DuBois)

    Thanks, Jim. However, YOUR talents FAR exceed mine. I think I just got a bit lucky this time, but your compliments are warmly appreciated.

    George

  3. #18
    Registered user. ballistarius's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eli Terry Jr Eight Day Just Acquired (By: George Nelson)

    Quote Originally Posted by George Nelson View Post
    Hi, Aitor,

    I would love to see a video of you dancing on your head- quite an accomplishment!
    George,
    Send me here a well preserved, original Terry P&S (I promise not to be too nicky-picky about the finials) and I'll do my best to give a good performance for you!

    Aitor
    It's all an accident, an accident of hands. Mine, others, all without mind, from one extreme to another, but neither works nor will ever. Steiner

  4. #19
    Registered User George Nelson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eli Terry Jr Eight Day Just Acquired (By: ballistarius)

    Hmmm... Sounds like a pretty fair trade to me! Get your hair all slicked down and get ready to "head dance"!

    George

  5. #20

    Default Re: Eli Terry Jr Eight Day Just Acquired

    Quote Originally Posted by George Nelson View Post
    Hi, All,

    Just want to share my newest addition to the family, an Eli Terry Jr. eight day "woodie" that is seemingly most original and is a superbly strong runner. It has what I believe to be all original hands, crank, weights, upper and lower glasses, movement and door lock. I'm not sure about the winding key- it is old, but I'm unsure of its originality. No door key came with it.

    It survived shipping fairly well-the only loss was the top splat, which had been cut off to shorten it anyway. I have currently put a home made substitute on it until a proper replacement can be located. (If anyone has one, please let me know!)

    At first, I questioned that since the clock had carved columns it should have had a carved splat. The seller had the same questions, and wrote to George Bruno while he was fixing the clock. Here is Mr. Bruno's response:

    "Regarding your question about the absence of a carved splat, I have worked on two Terry Jr. clocks just like yours, and both of them had carved columns and a flat, stenciled splat. I can only surmise that at some point, Terry Jr. ran out of carved splats, and substituted flat ones until his supply was replenished. I've found that in servicing more than 1000 woodworks clocks that subs like this are fairly common. I've even seen mismatched gears in some movements, that while inappropriate, still worked well and were original and not later replacements.
    The stencil pattern on your splat is identical to several Terry Jr. splats I've seen and is the same as the two I serviced, so its originality is not in question. It is a darn shame that some idiot chopped the top off of it, as that is an expensive and difficult repair. I would not welcome the job myself. Perhaps in your travels you can locate a loose Terry Jr. splat for replacement. The glue blocks, although one corner one is missing, are strongly in place, adding to my conclusion that this splat is unquestionably original to your clock.

    The case style of your Terry Jr. clock is uncommon. Most I've seen have just a top and bottom glass, not three separate pieces. Also uncommon is the presence of original weights and pulleys. On most 8-dayers, these are modern replacements..."


    I noticed that the bell, which shows no signs of being changed, has a rather large casting defect. It is curious that Terry Jr., known for quality in his clocks, would include a bell with such an obvious defect. I suspected that it would sound horrible, but it has an absolutely charming, on the quiet side, deep, rich tone! I was sure it would sound flat...

    So, I am in search of a splat. All else is well, and I'm quite happy with my purchase. Comments and/or questions always welcome!

    Best to all,

    George
    It's a very nice 8 day ww.

    I have seen various combinations of carved and stenciled. The most typical combination is where both the columns and splat are stenciled or both the columns and splat are carved. I have also seen a stenciled splat with carved columns and stenciled columns with carved splat. I must admit I always examine the latter 2 combinations carefully for evidence that the splat was changed.

    I have also seen the use of a 3 part door as in your clock. It's nice when the presumably original weights and compounding pulleys survive, too. It does happen. The period compounding pulleys have a wood wheel.

    The glasses are nice. Note that neither glass has a boarder as would be the more typical situation. I've seen that before, particularly on Terry firms ww clocks. See below. The Terry firms clocks also sometimes used that somewhat funky background color. See the second pic I posted.

    With regards to the various amputations, croppings and other indignities suffered by antiques over the ages. Some where intentional so something that was just considered old but still useful could fit into a space. Many case scrolls, feet etc. lopped off of not just clocks (shelf and tall), but other forms of furniture. I've seen some of the most WONDERFUL high boys with amputated/shortened legs or where the top and base were separated, the latter having feet added so it could be used as a chest of draws in one home and the base having a board top added and voila, a side board for another. Almost as bad as adding LED's though I will admit that's less permanently disfiguring.

    Sometimes parts were just structurally vulnerable. One part of the crest broke or one leg broke or rotted so the remaining ones were cut off so it would be useful or would look symmetrical.

    Before I make my next statement, I will qualify it by saying I'm the worst at this movement classification stuff and may have this all wrong, but here goes.

    I'm surprised no one has brought up the movement in your clock.

    It appears to be a 5.111. It was made by Eli Terry, Jr. and Eli Terry, Jr. and Co. up until about 1839 with the supply apparently lasting until about 1841. What is interesting about them is that besides the Fyler Patent movements, they were the only 8 day ww movements to achieve the same size as a Terry 30 hour ww movement. However, they will NOT work a 30 hour case, even though they might fit, as they still required a greater weight travel distance as well as larger weights than a 30 hour ww movement. The cases of the clocks with these movements tend to not be as deep and have a somewhat "broad in the beam" appearance.

    For more about these movements, see the excellent NAWCC Bulletin Supplement #19 by Lee Davis devoted to 8 day ww clocks. Especially see page 32, including table II and page 54, figure 133. Also see this thread: http://mb.nawcc.org/showthread.php?7...y-wooden-works . I show another example of one of these clocks and discuss this movement. Note the subject clock of that thread is fully carved and a double door, one of the typical case configurations for an 8 day ww clock. Also used by ST and others. Check out the wonderful repair to the time side winding arbor and under the cannon arbor!

    NOW, the 5.111 wouldn't work in a 30 hour case though it was the size of an 30 hour ww movement. However, they did do the reverse. They stuck a 30 hour ww movement into a case meant to hold an 8 day ww. I suspect that was done to use stuff up.

    I offer as an example of the latter the suitcase ogee pictured below. An 8 day case where oxidation, rail pin holes, wear left by weight travel, etc, etc, all the typical evidence indicates that that was always the movement it had. Note the current label is pasted over​ what I believe to be the original 8 day one. Yes, hung above the "terlet" in my downstairs powder room (and since displaced by 2 other rather nice clocks; it is surely a place of honor!).

    A virtually identical clock was part of the Chris Brown collection. See Brown and Oeschsle, Good for a Time, page 139, "CB#200".

    RM
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    Last edited by rmarkowitz1_cee4a1; 04-24-2017 at 06:26 PM.

  6. #21
    Registered User George Nelson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eli Terry Jr Eight Day Just Acquired (By: rmarkowitz1_cee4a1)

    RM,

    My goodness! Such a WEALTH of information- I am so very grateful. I'll immediately locate and read the articles you referenced.

    I'm glad that you included pictures of the glass in your Terry clock, for it exhibits some interesting features- some of which you mention. I'm currently discussing the tablets with your friend, Jim DuBois and also with Pat H., both of whom had some interesting observations. In particular, we were discussing the apparent sloppiness of the grass and trees, where the background darkens parts of the tree trunks. I see this is evident in the pictures of your tablet as well. It seems likely that the same "artist" did the tablets on both your clock and mine. The scenes on my clock also exhibit a rather strange background color, which I attributed to an attempt to create either a sunrise or sunset theme.

    Thanks, too, for another confirmation that my stenciled splat/carved column could well be original. I have as positively as is possible determined that it is surely original, as when it arrived shattered from the trials of shipping, there was no evidence whatsoever of a changeout, as the glue blocks behind it had never before been relocated or altered in any way.

    As for the movement, when I first saw it I was horrified, as it appeared to me to be a typical 30 hour. Thank goodness it wasn't, and I too identified it as a type 5.111. Whew! My clock case has a depth of just over 3-1/8", very thin indeed. I believe the unusually shaped weights for this clock were made specifically for this case style- flat and wide

    RM, I'll comment further once I read your referenced articles, and the "Good for a Time" book, which I have a copy of. Your help and comments are very much valued, as always. You have been immensely helpful to me and to so many others on the Boards. Speaking for everyone without a shred of permission to do so, I can very safely say that we always appreciate your help, information, suggestions and comments. Thanks again, and I, too, have a couple of my clocks above the "terlets" in the house.

    Warmest regards,

    George

  7. #22

    Default Re: Eli Terry Jr Eight Day Just Acquired (By: George Nelson)

    Quote Originally Posted by George Nelson View Post
    RM,

    My goodness! Such a WEALTH of information- I am so very grateful. I'll immediately locate and read the articles you referenced.

    I'm glad that you included pictures of the glass in your Terry clock, for it exhibits some interesting features- some of which you mention. I'm currently discussing the tablets with your friend, Jim DuBois and also with Pat H., both of whom had some interesting observations. In particular, we were discussing the apparent sloppiness of the grass and trees, where the background darkens parts of the tree trunks. I see this is evident in the pictures of your tablet as well. It seems likely that the same "artist" did the tablets on both your clock and mine. The scenes on my clock also exhibit a rather strange background color, which I attributed to an attempt to create either a sunrise or sunset theme.

    Thanks, too, for another confirmation that my stenciled splat/carved column could well be original. I have as positively as is possible determined that it is surely original, as when it arrived shattered from the trials of shipping, there was no evidence whatsoever of a changeout, as the glue blocks behind it had never before been relocated or altered in any way.

    As for the movement, when I first saw it I was horrified, as it appeared to me to be a typical 30 hour. Thank goodness it wasn't, and I too identified it as a type 5.111. Whew! My clock case has a depth of just over 3-1/8", very thin indeed. I believe the unusually shaped weights for this clock were made specifically for this case style- flat and wide

    RM, I'll comment further once I read your referenced articles, and the "Good for a Time" book, which I have a copy of. Your help and comments are very much valued, as always. You have been immensely helpful to me and to so many others on the Boards. Speaking for everyone without a shred of permission to do so, I can very safely say that we always appreciate your help, information, suggestions and comments. Thanks again, and I, too, have a couple of my clocks above the "terlets" in the house.

    Warmest regards,

    George
    Thanks for your kind comments.

    Yes, the glasses are very similar and I believe are right. They were crude. They were being cranked out as cheaply as possible. And the more you made, the more you were paid.

    RM

  8. #23

    Default Re: Eli Terry Jr Eight Day Just Acquired

    I'm confused. Is this a different splat than the one pictured in your first post, with the clock on a wall bracket? It seems to be. If so, what happened to that stenciled splat? (or maybe what I'm seeing is your homemade splat.)
    NAWCC 25131

  9. #24
    Registered User George Nelson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eli Terry Jr Eight Day Just Acquired (By: Peter A. Nunes)

    Peter,

    Sorry for the confusion. The picture of the overall front of the clock on the shelf shows my temporary splat before I repaired and reinstalled the original, chopped off one. The picture of the back of the clock shows the original splat BEFORE SHIPPING. I don't blame you in the least for the confusion! I have not posted a pic of the clock with the repaired, reinstalled splat.

    George

  10. #25
    Registered user. ballistarius's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eli Terry Jr Eight Day Just Acquired (By: George Nelson)

    Quote Originally Posted by George Nelson View Post
    Hmmm... Sounds like a pretty fair trade to me! Get your hair all slicked down and get ready to "head dance"!

    George
    Unfortunately, I've got no hair to slick down, George. I'd better use a cushion...
    (My apologies for the irrelevant sideshow on this interesting thread!)

    aitor
    It's all an accident, an accident of hands. Mine, others, all without mind, from one extreme to another, but neither works nor will ever. Steiner

  11. #26
    Registered User George Nelson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eli Terry Jr Eight Day Just Acquired (By: ballistarius)

    Hi, Aitor,

    Sometimes a bit of polished skin makes a wonderful rotational surface. And, don't apologize for the "irrelevant sideshow", as we all need a little humor in our lives!

    Best,

    George

  12. #27
    Registered user. Sooth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eli Terry Jr Eight Day Just Acquired (By: George Nelson)

    Very nice repair job to the splat, George! A very nice clock too. I would probably be tempted to wax polish the case a bit to give it a bit of life. Hard to tell from the few photos, but the finish looks a bit dry/dull. Then again the splat looks great in the repair photos, so hard to judge from a photo.

  13. #28
    Registered User George Nelson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eli Terry Jr Eight Day Just Acquired (By: Sooth)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sooth View Post
    Very nice repair job to the splat, George! A very nice clock too. I would probably be tempted to wax polish the case a bit to give it a bit of life. Hard to tell from the few photos, but the finish looks a bit dry/dull. Then again the splat looks great in the repair photos, so hard to judge from a photo.
    Hi, Sooth,

    Thanks for your comments and insight. The finish on the clock is indeed dry and dull, but at this point, I believe it to be original. I am unsure as to how to proceed: leave it alone or try to improve it a bit with hopefully harmless intervention. I would love to hear everyone's thoughts about what to do.

    My very best to all,

    George
    Time is a great story teller... Irish Proverb

  14. #29
    Registered user. Sooth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eli Terry Jr Eight Day Just Acquired (By: George Nelson)

    No harm in leaving it as-is, but many collectors like everything to be pristine, and in many cases, if it isn't perfect, collectors will strip them down and ruin them forever (I'm guilty of this with some of my first clocks from 10+ years ago). Because of this, I tend to try making my clocks look as good as humanly possible while also keeping them as original and untouched as possible. It can be a very tough balancing act. It's taken me years of practice and experience to be able to make the right calls when it comes to finishes.

    In this case, a wax polish would not harm or alter the original finish (unless you buff it so hard that you wear through the finish). I use either clear wax (lighter woods) or a tinted brown wax for dark woods. The trick is to apply the wax and WAIT FOR IT TO DRY completely before buffing it (at least 15-30mins). If the finish is excessively dry, the wax may not make a huge difference, but it will help protect it a bit more.

  15. #30
    Registered User George Nelson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eli Terry Jr Eight Day Just Acquired (By: Sooth)

    Sooth,

    Is there a particular brand of wax you prefer? I'm trying to avoid the trial and error phase before stumbling upon the right one. I respect your opinion highly, and would be interested to know your favorite brand. Hopefully it is available down here in the States.

    Thanks,

    George
    Time is a great story teller... Irish Proverb

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