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Thread: waltham 1857 ?

  1. #1
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    Default waltham 1857 ?

    Hello,

    I just bought from eBay this pocket watch.I was attracted by the small series on the movement ( 5424). On the case is stamped the same number:5424.According to pocketwatchdatabase.com watch was produce in 1857.Can you please tell me if 5424 is the real serial number or it means something else ? Can you please give me any other information about the clock ? Thank you !
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 20170420_183340_1492770983194_resized.jpg   20170420_183335_1492770981837_resized.jpg   20170420_183331_1492770985241_resized.jpg   20170420_183757_1492770984419_resized.jpg   2017-04-21 13.36.51.jpg  


  2. #2
    Registered User Jim Haney's Avatar
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    Default Re: waltham 1857 ? (By: amedeus)

    amedeus,


    No, I am sorry but that is not a Model 1857 Waltham.

    It is most likely English and you can look up the Case by the hallmarks inside the lids.


    Do a search in this forum for Swiss Fakes.
    Jim Haney

  3. #3

    Default Re: waltham 1857 ? (By: Jim Haney)

    Case is hallmarked Birmingham 1879.

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    Default Re: waltham 1857 ? (By: rolandantrobus)

    Apart from the serial number puzzle,
    could it be a model 1877?

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    Technical Admin Tom McIntyre's Avatar
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    Default Re: waltham 1857 ? (By: LloydB)

    Quote Originally Posted by LloydB View Post
    Apart from the serial number puzzle,
    could it be a model 1877?
    That is my initial reaction. Without a really close examination, I don't think one can be certain. The A.B sponsor mark on the case would indicate it was made in Dennison's new watch case shop at the time.

    Dennison had brought over some Tremont material, but there is no way he would have access to Waltham 1877 material, so the watch would have been a "private label" for someone in the UK, but it is awfully subtle for that.
    Tom McIntyre Click me.
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    you won't have anything to laugh at when you're old.
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  6. #6

    Default Re: waltham 1857 ? (By: Tom McIntyre)

    Is there anything engraved on the rear lid?

  7. #7

    Default Re: waltham 1857 ? (By: amedeus)

    To me this looks like a model 1876, for example - https://pocketwatchdatabase.com/sear...waltham/925099

    It's like a "little brother" of a model 1877/1883 keywind. One of the 1876's usual characteristics, is that any attempt to set the time by turning the centre post with a key, just results in the watch ticking with more speed & urgency. This probably doesn't do the watch much good, so do be gentle.

    I could only guess at how this example has finished up with a strange serial number on it.

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    Default Re: waltham 1857 ? (By: topspin)

    If he measures across the pillar plate we would know if it was 14 size or not.

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    Default Re: waltham 1857 ? (By: richiec)

    It's too big for an 1876, mine only spans 2 1/2 fingers cased. It looks identical to one of my 1877 keywind... screw locations and orientation, balance, plain balance cock, all except for the markings on barrel bridge.

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    Default Re: waltham 1857 ? (By: Mark UK)

    Thanks for all the answers ! I attached some more photos , hope it will help.Unfortunately, the watch does not work,so I can not set the time.Thank you.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 20170422_141344_1492859952195_resized.jpg   20170422_141403_1492859950974_resized.jpg   20170422_141419_1492859949481_resized.jpg   20170422_141437_1492859945803_resized.jpg   20170422_141458_1492859947132_resized.jpg  

    20170422_141542_1492859948477_resized.jpg  

  11. #11

    Default Re: waltham 1857 ? (By: amedeus)

    Based on those measurements I'm satisfied that this is an 18s. Likely a model 1877.

    Thank-you for helping me to notice that my micrometer has a little button for switching over to inches!

  12. #12

    Default Re: waltham 1857 ? (By: amedeus)

    I would say that it is an 1877 Model, Home Grade, much the same as this one that dates to January 1880. It is also in an identical Dennison case for the same year 1879/80. This was the first year of the Birmingham assayed A.B (Alfred Bedford) sponsor mark.

    Nick

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails DSCF0352.JPG   DSCF0351.JPG  

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    Default Re: waltham 1857 ? (By: topspin)

    It was a win win situation

    Thank-you for helping me to notice that my micrometer has a little button for switching over to inches![/QUOTE]

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    Default Re: waltham 1857 ? (By: amedeus)

    [NOTE: pure speculation, best 'Spock'
    voice] "Is it possible that" Waltham
    shipped one or more "sample" 1877
    movements to Dennison, with no serial
    numbers? Perhaps to establish the
    case requirements?

    Was the puzzling serial number engraved
    in Britain? If so, Amadeus's watch may
    document an 'interesting' moment in
    Waltham history.

  15. #15

    Default Re: waltham 1857 ? (By: LloydB)

    Quote Originally Posted by LloydB View Post
    [NOTE: pure speculation, best 'Spock'
    voice] "Is it possible that" Waltham
    shipped one or more "sample" 1877
    movements to Dennison, with no serial
    numbers? Perhaps to establish the
    case requirements?

    Was the puzzling serial number engraved
    in Britain? If so, Amadeus's watch may
    document an 'interesting' moment in
    Waltham history.
    Of course I'd forgotten that the OPs original post shows that the watch and the case have the same number. It's definitely an English case. Anyone got another example of a US movement the same num as an English case?

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