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  1. #16

    Default Re: Old Herschede syncing problem (By: jme1013)

    It is set up wrong as far as the drum position. On the first quarter it should sound four descending tones and stop. I believe it may intentionally not play the Westminster melody on the hour. I've run into a couple of more modern clocks that skip that part of the tune. We could verify that with another hour of melodies on the video.
    A man with a clock always knows the time. A man with two clocks is never sure.

  2. #17

    Default Re: Old Herschede syncing problem (By: shutterbug)

    No, the position of the drum is fine. It's out of sequence in the video because it will not stay in sequence due to it locking up after the strike. I took that video just so I could watch the mechanism more later. Trust me, I had it in sequence several times in the 2 1/2 hours I was playing with it.

  3. #18

    Default Re: Old Herschede syncing problem (By: jme1013)

    OK. So here's what I'm hearing: At the quarter hour it starts with the last half of the full Westminster tune. At the 1/2 hour it completes the chime, and should play the four descending notes next, but it doesn't. Instead, it repeats the 1/4 hour notes that it played at the 1/4, and then plays the descending notes of the normal 1/4 hour. I don't have an explanation, unless it's not designed as a typical Westminster ... but I still don't believe it's designed to play at the hour, but just strikes. My question is whether it does the exact same thing when you turn the hand another hour's worth of chimes?
    A man with a clock always knows the time. A man with two clocks is never sure.

  4. #19
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    Default Re: Old Herschede syncing problem (By: jme1013)

    These are suppose to play all 4 quarters.
    These are notoriously hard to setup and many have been discarded
    over the years. This is why they are rare now.
    The shifting cam and follower are known to be a significant trouble
    spot.
    Since I've never seen one in person I can only refer one to older post.
    You might do a search for Herschede two weight and 9 or 5 tube movements.
    There are a number of articles about these movement.
    Tinker Dwight

  5. #20

    Default Re: Old Herschede syncing problem (By: shutterbug)

    Yes and No. It plays 4, 8, and 12 notes on the correct quarters every time, but they are different notes every hour. Reason being, the barrel rotates a different amount each hour due to the strike locking up after it finishes the current hour. Therefore, it's never in the same position when it comes back to 1/4 after. It needs to be rotating the equivalent of 12 strikes every hour, however many for the actual hour and the remainder of 12 silently.
    I'm pretty sure it's not supposed to play all 4 quarters. If you watch the wheel that triggers the barrel shift (below and slightly to the left of the hand shaft) it moves in 4 quarter increments, at the top of the hour the pin on that wheel forces the lever (that runs to the top left corner) to shift the drum. In hindsight, I wish I had videoed at least 2 hours worth of trips. If it's supposed to be playing the 4th qtr. also, two things need to be happening...1st) the pin on the hand shaft that trips the 4th qtr. needs to trip that while not allowing the pin that trips the lever to shift the pin barrel. 2nd) the pin that shifts the lever for the pin barrel needs to be engaged after the 4th qtr. plays. Both of these things are driven off of the hand shaft. This is a movement that can't do both.
    I could be wrong and I'm wishing I had taken better pictures and videos at this point. I really appreciate all the input from everyone.

  6. #21

    Default Re: Old Herschede syncing problem

    Colonial Mfg. had a two weight 3/4 Westminster chime hall clock movement, sourced from Winterhalder & Hofmeier. They would play on the 3 quarter hours but at the top of hour the drum shifts and only strikes the hour. I do not think they were set up to keep the quarter hour chimes in sync. They were basically meant as bargain-bin movements for those who did not want to spend more money on a full three train 4/4 chime clock, which would have cost more at the time.
    I am thinking this is what you have, or a short-lived Herschede version of the same movement.

    In regards to the lever locking up, see what it does when it's supposed to shift back before the first quarter hour.

    The actual two weight Herschedes look more like this:
    http://mb.nawcc.org/showthread.php?8...-weight-7-tube
    "Experience, Education, & Enjoyment." - Justin A. Olson

  7. #22
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    Default Re: Old Herschede syncing problem (By: jme1013)

    Jme, Can you communicate with your customer to see if this clock has been acting like these since day one? You can find out a lot of information by talking and discussing with your customer. My two cents.
    Ming

  8. #23

    Default Re: Old Herschede syncing problem (By: jme1013)

    Quote Originally Posted by jme1013 View Post
    Yes and No. It plays 4, 8, and 12 notes on the correct quarters every time, but they are different notes every hour. Reason being, the barrel rotates a different amount each hour due to the strike locking up after it finishes the current hour. Therefore, it's never in the same position when it comes back to 1/4 after. It needs to be rotating the equivalent of 12 strikes every hour, however many for the actual hour and the remainder of 12 silently.
    I'm pretty sure it's not supposed to play all 4 quarters. If you watch the wheel that triggers the barrel shift (below and slightly to the left of the hand shaft) it moves in 4 quarter increments, at the top of the hour the pin on that wheel forces the lever (that runs to the top left corner) to shift the drum. In hindsight, I wish I had videoed at least 2 hours worth of trips. If it's supposed to be playing the 4th qtr. also, two things need to be happening...1st) the pin on the hand shaft that trips the 4th qtr. needs to trip that while not allowing the pin that trips the lever to shift the pin barrel. 2nd) the pin that shifts the lever for the pin barrel needs to be engaged after the 4th qtr. plays. Both of these things are driven off of the hand shaft. This is a movement that can't do both.
    I could be wrong and I'm wishing I had taken better pictures and videos at this point. I really appreciate all the input from everyone.
    That does narrow it down to the strike function somehow locking up the chime. I didn't see any movement of the chime barrel, so not sure how the movement switches over to strike.
    A man with a clock always knows the time. A man with two clocks is never sure.

  9. #24

    Default Re: Old Herschede syncing problem (By: shutterbug)

    You didn't see the movement of the barrel due to my shaky video. Watch the left end of the barrel, as I move the minute hand to the top of the hour you'll see the gap between the barrel and the frame open up. It shifts back as the minute hand advances toward 1/4 after.

  10. #25
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    Default Re: Old Herschede syncing problem (By: jme1013)

    I just looked at the video ( shame on me for not looking sooner ).
    This is not the same 2 height movement that I've seen before
    and is NOT the same as those posted before.
    The ones I was thinking of did play the chimes at the 4 quarters.
    I'm not sure if this one does. It doesn't have anything like
    the same shift mechanism that the others have.
    Tinker Dwight

  11. #26

    Default Re: Old Herschede syncing problem (By: Tinker Dwight)

    We've concluded that this one does not do the 4th qtr. there isn't a way for it to shift the barrrel to the strike position after it would play the 4th qtr., since they are actuated by the same action. It can only do one of the two, which obviously would be to strike the hour. I'm just surprised that I can find no literature on this movement.

  12. #27
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    Default Re: Old Herschede syncing problem (By: jme1013)

    Quote Originally Posted by jme1013 View Post
    We've concluded that this one does not do the 4th qtr. there isn't a way for it to shift the barrrel to the strike position after it would play the 4th qtr., since they are actuated by the same action. It can only do one of the two, which obviously would be to strike the hour. I'm just surprised that I can find no literature on this movement.
    The other movement had a complicated shift cam at the left end
    of chime barrel. I suspect so many complained about this one they
    made the change.
    Tinker Dwight

  13. #28

    Default Re: Old Herschede syncing problem (By: Tinker Dwight)

    I may make another trip to the customers house on my own time to get some good pictures from every side, just to add to this thread for future reference for all.

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