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  1. #1

    Default Old Herschede syncing problem

    I https://youtu.be/F1tl_qakUHA

    This is a video of an old Herschede 5 tube that I looked at today. It chimes at 15, 30, and 45, but only does the hour on the hour. Where I'm confused is, the chime and strike are on the same tumbler, but it locks up after it does the hour. Consequently, when it goes to do 1/4 after, the tumbler is in a different position after each hour. If I manually sync it and (just for example sake) it strikes one and stays in sync for 1/4 after, the next go around when it strikes two the tumbler has now advanced further to play the second strike so the 1/4 after melody is now out of sync. I realize the melody is not synchronized in the video I just shot it quickly so I could study the mechanics. Has anyone toyed with this one before? I would expect the tumbler to shift and rotate the equivalent of 12 strikes, play the actual hour and the remainder of 12 shifts out of play every time in order to keep Westminster in sync. The way it functions now it syncs itself every 3 hours.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Old Herschede syncing problem (By: jme1013)

    These clocks have a peculiar auto sync system, involving an odd shaped lever that is activated by a pin on the chime drum.
    Do you have Steven Conover book on these clocks. If not it would be well worth the price. These clocks were well made but most are in need of some major repair work or overhaul.
    Willie X

  3. #3

    Default Re: Old Herschede syncing problem (By: Willie X)

    I do not, but I will look it up. Thanks. As I worked with it today I couldn't help but feel like it was missing something, but nothing obvious is out of place. Thanks for the input.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Old Herschede syncing problem (By: jme1013)

    If it is the clock I think it is, the drum shifts to play the strike.
    It has a cam to shift on the end of the chime drum. These are
    notoriously had to setup and they also have wear failures that
    require special machining to fix.
    How about some pictures of the movement.
    Tinker Dwight

  5. #5

    Default Re: Old Herschede syncing problem (By: jme1013)

    I just looked at the vid. The book I mentioned won't help you much with that one. I think about all Steven C. said about that one amounted to a warning ...
    Willie X

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Old Herschede syncing problem

    Hello Jme.

    The thing is the music barrel keeps turning during the strike process. I believe you should examine the lever action. You will want to see how when the chime is finished that the lever is activated on the strike.

    What it appears is that the hour strike is canceling the chime/west minster. It acts like it's lifting the chime hammers up during strike process.

    I have a German Bim bam that does that. Strange arrangement with two snails. One snail does the bim bam the other does the hour count and at first I thought (when trying to get it running) that it would strike out the hour as bim bam. But it does this weird thing where it lifts one of the hammer rods up out of the way. Then the hour is struck on just one gong wire.

    It's kind of neat because it differentiates between each 1/4 and the hour. So there is no mistake of 1 pm/am or 15 after. It has a separate lever and cam for that whole process. At first I thought maybe it was a 1/2 hr. strike. Didn't make sense till I realized it's only job was to lift the hammer out of the way. Not drop it and make a strike noise.

    I'm pretty sure this movement is not the shifting barrel with the locking pin. I have worked on one of those.

    My guess is that the chime cam is not lifting a lever high enough so the lever it effects does not stop the strike from proceeding. Probably dependent of a missing pin or lever that just misses a pin of pinned wheel of strike.

    Look for a missing pin that is suppose to be on side of strike just before the fly (thing that spins catches air). The chime is to hand over control to the strike after it is done. This usually involves dropping a lever out of the way of a pin.

    RJ
    Last edited by RJSoftware; 04-15-2017 at 11:41 PM.
    The bitter the challenge, the juicy the conquest.
    Conquest -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGaVUApDVuY

  7. #7

    Default Re: Old Herschede syncing problem (By: Tinker Dwight)

    Willie X, There's a video at the beginning of the original post.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Old Herschede syncing problem (By: jme1013)

    I've had a few different Herschedes in the shop, but never one like this. I failed to mention in the original post that it only has 2 weights. I'll be studying this one some more. Unfortunately, this was a house call and the customer didn't want it to leave the house. So I'll be studying the video. On the bright side, I was able to get it running for him and he had the chime tubes hanging backwards and thought that sounded fine. When I corrected that he was thrilled that he recognized the melody, even though it gets out of sync.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Old Herschede syncing problem (By: jme1013)

    You should do a search back through the MB. There are
    several post on these two weight movements. When the
    cam setup at the end wears out, they just don't work right.
    I've never touched one but I can see they'd be difficult.
    I doubt you could set it right while are the customers house.
    Tinker Dwight

  10. #10

    Default Re: Old Herschede syncing problem (By: Tinker Dwight)

    Take a look at the article in the bulletin, Vol. 38, issue #304, page 634. There is an in depth discussion of this type of herschede movement. At the end of the chime sequence for the full hour, the pin barrel moves slightly so that only the hour striking pins are engaged - the chime pins having been moved slightly, are idle. Upon the completion of the hour strike, the chime barrel again shifts slightly, all pins are inactive and the pin barrel continues to run until the end of a 12 hour strike and then stops. At about 10 minutes after the hour the entire pin barrel shifts back to the original starting position and is reset so it can start the correct sequence of 1/4, 1/2, etc.
    jim

  11. #11

    Default Re: Old Herschede syncing problem (By: tickntock1)

    Jim, that's exactly what I was expecting to happen. Everything that you described happens, except it locks up after the strike. It doesn't shift the 2nd time and never completes the remainder of the 12 "silent" strikes. Thanks for the direction to the resource.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Old Herschede syncing problem (By: jme1013)

    Quote Originally Posted by jme1013 View Post
    I https://youtu.be/F1tl_qakUHA

    This is a video of an old Herschede 5 tube that I looked at today. It chimes at 15, 30, and 45, but only does the hour on the hour. Where I'm confused is, the chime and strike are on the same tumbler, but it locks up after it does the hour. Consequently, when it goes to do 1/4 after, the tumbler is in a different position after each hour. If I manually sync it and (just for example sake) it strikes one and stays in sync for 1/4 after, the next go around when it strikes two the tumbler has now advanced further to play the second strike so the 1/4 after melody is now out of sync. I realize the melody is not synchronized in the video I just shot it quickly so I could study the mechanics. Has anyone toyed with this one before? I would expect the tumbler to shift and rotate the equivalent of 12 strikes, play the actual hour and the remainder of 12 shifts out of play every time in order to keep Westminster in sync. The way it functions now it syncs itself every 3 hours.
    Hi, JME,
    I have a five tube Herschede clock. After I take the movement apart for cleaning, I did not tight the chime drum screw correctly. So the drum slip each time it chimes. I am afraid that you have the same problem. So double check your drum set screw tightness. Please follow the link below to my post in the past.
    http://mb.nawcc.org/showthread.php?1...-clock-to-have
    Hope it will help you.
    Ming

  13. #13

    Default Re: Old Herschede syncing problem (By: marylander)

    This is a different issue. The barrel is good and tight, no slipping. It locks up after it strikes the hour. It should strike the hour and then the barrel should shift and continue to rotate the equivalent of 12 strikes every hour in order to keep the chime in sequence.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Old Herschede syncing problem (By: jme1013)

    Have you tried checking the spring on the side of the movement which causes the pin barrel to move the required shifts in position is tightly screwed down and/or that there is enough tension exerted by spring to move the barrel?

  15. #15

    Default Re: Old Herschede syncing problem (By: tickntock1)

    Unfortunately, this was a house call where I didn't have the option to bring it back to the shop. I took the video so I could analyze it some more. I got it up and running, just left with the chime that would not stay in sync. Apparently, this isn't a terribly common movement. We've had a few in our shop and done several on the road and this is the first time we've ran across this movement.

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