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  1. #1
    Registered User George Nelson's Avatar
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    Post Known PERIOD Woodworks Clocks Winding Cranks

    Hi, All,

    A request for help from all of you woodworks experts out there, please. Recently, Jim DuBois and I were discussing original winding cranks, and it made me curious as to the different ORIGINAL varieties out there. I'm quite interested in amassing a photographic collection of known original (or, in other words, PERIOD) woodworks cranks. Once complete, I plan on posting here for all to reference.

    It is my hope to make it easy for everyone to identify a true, period crank from an old reproduction or mass-produced replacement. While I believe it will be impossible to truly guarantee that one particular crank style is original to any one wood works clock, unless we get several identical cranks, all from, for example, Riley Whiting or Eli Terry clocks, I still believe this image collection might be useful and interesting!

    I strongly suspect that the different makers bought their cranks from whomever they could get them the most inexpensively from, so consistency might not be evident. But, if we get a large enough database, further research might be able to identify a specific supplier.

    Anyway, I'm thinking that this would be a fun and helpful project. So, clock collecting friends, please consider posting pictures within this thread of your original, period winding cranks. Along with your good, close-up picture on a white background, please provide the following information:

    Clock maker's name/style of clock?
    Eight Day or 30 Hour wood movement?
    Any pertinent facts as to why you believe it is original?

    Once we get a good number of pictures, I'll condense and format the information into an easy-to-read presentation for all to reference. Please understand that by providing a picture, you are also giving me permission to use your picture, strictly for non-commercial use within the N.A.W.C.C environment.

    I've attached a picture to get us started:

    Clock Maker's name: Eli Terry & Sons
    30 Hour Wood Movement
    Pertinent Facts: Claimed to be one family owned clock throughout lifetime before my acquisition. Clock is seemingly all original: weights, glass, pendulum bob, etc.

    The more pictures we get, the more useful this project may turn out to be.

    Thanks in advance for everyone's help. I sincerely hope we get a multitude of pictures. Let the photography begin!


    Warmest regards,

    George Nelson
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  2. #2

    Default Re: Known ORIGINAL Woodworks Clocks Winding Cranks (By: George Nelson)

    Seth Thomas 30-hour wood movement Pillar and Scroll.
    Supposedly the clock was in my mother's family dating from the 19th century.
    I frankly have no idea if it's the original winder, maybe other forums members could confirm or debunk.

    Regards -

    Dan


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  3. #3
    Registered User George Nelson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Known ORIGINAL Woodworks Clocks Winding Cranks

    Dan,

    Many, many thanks for posting your picture!

    It is my belief that your crank is a more modern reproduction. This is due to a couple of features: The end of the barrel of the crank (the end where the handle is mounted into the barrel) is rounded or somewhat cone shaped, a feature typical of modern, reproduction cranks. Secondly, the overall piece is a bit too "sharp" to be original, and lacks the wear, ornamentation and tarnish one would expect to see in an original crank.

    This is one reason I'm trying to establish some sort of "picture dictionary", so as to help everyone be able to access a useful reference of early, original winding cranks. We are off to a bit of a slow start as you are the first contributor, but hopefully others like you will eventually contribute as well. At least now we have two pictures- one hopefully original, and one of an older reproduction. Both useful, in my opinion.

    I'm quite grateful that you took the time to be the first to bravely contribute to my project. Your help is VERY much appreciated! Your picture is perfect- just like what I asked for! And remember, the lack of an original winding key does not affect the fact that your clock is quite collectible! In fact, if you would be so kind as to start another thread within this category (Wood Movement Clocks) picturing your early 19th century clock, I and others would love to see your entire clock and its movement!


    As always, opinions, both in disagreement or agreement and any and all comments welcome! This is how we all learn!

    With sincerest gratitude,

    George Nelson

    PS: Dan, just found the link to your previous posting: http://mb.nawcc.org/showthread.php?7...993#post529993 George
    Last edited by George Nelson; 04-17-2017 at 08:34 PM. Reason: Add link

  4. #4
    Registered user. Sooth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Known ORIGINAL Woodworks Clocks Winding Cranks (By: George Nelson)

    I have very few old original crank keys, but the ones I do have are unquestionably old. I will see if I can photograph them in the next few days (maybe over the weekend).

  5. #5
    Registered User George Nelson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Known ORIGINAL Woodworks Clocks Winding Cranks (By: Sooth)

    Thanks so much, Sooth!!! I was beginning to think this thread had gone the way of the DoDo Bird... Your help and expertise is ALWAYS appreciated!

    George

  6. #6
    Registered user. Sooth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Known ORIGINAL Woodworks Clocks Winding Cranks (By: George Nelson)

    I have two keys that are potentially wooden works cranks. I have two other keys that are slightly different (one may be a banjo or vienna key, and the other is cast and I can't be sure if it was meant for a clock or not). I'll photograph the 4 and you can decide what's what.

  7. #7
    Registered User George Nelson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Known ORIGINAL Woodworks Clocks Winding Cranks (By: Sooth)

    Thanks, Sooth. I posted under the wooden works category, but am interested in ANY original crank-type keys! You're the best!

    George

  8. #8
    Registered user. Sooth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Known ORIGINAL Woodworks Clocks Winding Cranks (By: George Nelson)

    Any crank keys? Including grandfather and comtoise ones?

  9. #9
    Registered User George Nelson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Known ORIGINAL Woodworks Clocks Winding Cranks (By: Sooth)

    Sure! As long as they are identified, and old crank is fine!

    Thanks,

    George

  10. #10
    Registered user. Sooth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Known ORIGINAL Woodworks Clocks Winding Cranks (By: George Nelson)

    George, I think it's fairly impossible to ID any old crank to a particular clock or clockmaker. Keys get lost all the time, swapped, and old keys get paired with clocks they don't belong to. I have bought a number of clocks over the years with keys that I'm 99% sure are original to their clocks, but they tend to be Art Deco or other mass produced clocks, or clocks where there is a door clip that holds the key, a logo or stamp, etc. With clocks from the 1820s-1840s it's really going to be a guessing game.

    That said, the only 2 crank keys that I have paired with a period clock are one that is with a Daniel Pratt wooden works with triangular columns (seen here: http://jcclocks.blogspot.ca/2013/12/...part_4238.html). That particular key would be the second one in the first photo, with 3 rings, then 1 ring, then 2 rings near the tip. I can't even remember if this crank key came with the clock or if it was me who had an old crank that fit perfectly for it (from my spares). The second crank key that I believe might be original to one of my clocks is the large Comtoise key, which came with my Radet Père à Luzy Comtoise clock (which you can see here: http://jcclocks.blogspot.ca/2015/03/...on-part-3.html)

    These are the 5 old cranks that I have. The crank in the third photo may not be terribly old. It seems to be made from cast iron or cast steel. It has a fairly small winding hole, and it's a bit smaller than the other cranks. The largest one (photo 9 and 10) has a flared end. I'm not sure if it was meant for a banjo clock or for a Vienna, but it seems to be of a similar vintage as the other crank keys.



    I will have to add the comtoise key photos separately as there is a 10 photo limit, apparently.
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  11. #11
    Registered user. Sooth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Known ORIGINAL Woodworks Clocks Winding Cranks (By: Sooth)

    I don't understand this message board sometimes. It seems to have added the two extra photos, but not with the text, and now I can't add them in a separate comment because it wants to merge them with the previous post I just made. Why is it being so temperamental? I don't want to merge the posts. Do I need to wait ten minutes or something? Or do I have to wait for a different comment? Very annoying. This is why I normally post my own photos with links "off site". It avoids this problem completely.

  12. #12
    Registered User George Nelson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Known ORIGINAL Woodworks Clocks Winding Cranks (By: Sooth)

    Hi, Sooth! Your pictures are indeed most helpful! We are now off to a very good start in amassing a "picture data base " of good, original winding cranks- just what I was after! Thanks so much for being so very helpful.

    As to the posting problem, I'm not sure. I do know that the powers that be are working on a total revision of the message boards- perhaps this is a new development in testing phase, to prevent duplicate postings and thus save storage space. Not sure. I'd wait 24 hours and try again, if you have the time. Posting pictures off the boards on another site sometimes causes trouble as well. In keeping the pictures hosted on this board, everything will be saved in perpetuity and on a single site. So many pictures have been lost over the years as various hosting sites have gone out of business.

    Thanks so very much for your help!

    My very best,

    George Nelson

  13. #13
    Registered user. Sooth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Known ORIGINAL Woodworks Clocks Winding Cranks (By: Sooth)

    Let's try this again.

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  14. #14
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    Default Re: Known ORIGINAL Woodworks Clocks Winding Cranks (By: Sooth)

    Sooth, I have experienced the same issue with posting pictures. I have been submitting the reply and immediately editing to delete the large images. The thumbnails remain and will still enlarge as they always have. Hope this helps.

  15. #15
    Registered User George Nelson's Avatar
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    Exclamation Re: Known ORIGINAL Woodworks Clocks Winding Cranks (By: PatH)

    Hi, All,

    Here is my simple solution to the large picture problem- it might be the same as Pat's but I'm not sure. After composing my text and uploading pictures, I simply hit the "Go Advanced" button and delete the large pictures from within the text on the edit screen. Once hitting "Submit" after doing so, the thumbnails remain and the huge pictures are gone. Worked for me every time. Simple and effective. BTW, I have a Windows 10 system, if that makes any difference. Don't know how Apple or tablet users would fare...

    Best to all,

    George

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