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  1. #1
    Registered User ChrisBeattie's Avatar
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    Default Waltham Regulator Loses Power

    Hello all! It has been quite a few years since I have visited the Message Board. I'm hoping someone can offer me some advice and knowledge. I have been working on a large Waltham wall regulator (roughly 6' tall) and have a power question, and this is the first Waltham I have worked on. I have included a photo to coincide with my question as well. On the great wheel there is a secondary click/gear which should help to hold power. I am not exactly sure what it is supposed to do and hope that someone can explain it to me. So I disassembled the movement, cleaned it and reassembled it. On my test stand it stopped after just a few days. I noticed that when I turned the secondary/inner gear with my hand it didn't seem to hold much resistance. After tightening that gear gear and starting the clock again it ran perfectly for 5 weeks (winding once per week). I remove the weight, reinstall the movement in its case and low and behold, it stops running after about a day and a half. I tested the secondary gear (name unknown) and it had once again lost its power. After tightening it, it seems to be running with much more power as the tick-tock it MUCH louder than before. What the heck is this inner/secondary gear and what is its purpose? Is this what caused very little power to run the clock once the weight has been removed? Any help would be appreciated. I have another issue with a German Grandfather clock stopping after 4 days but will start a new post for that question. Thank you in advance,
    Chris

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Waltham1.jpg   Waltham2.jpg  
    So Many Clocks, So Little Time

  2. #2

    Default Re: Waltham Regulator Loses Power (By: ChrisBeattie)

    Those are the gear and pawl for the maintaining power, which keeps the clock running while being wound.
    “If one tells the truth, one is sure, sooner or later, to be found out.” - Oscar Wilde

  3. #3
    Registered User ChrisBeattie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Waltham Regulator Loses Power (By: Steven Thornberry)

    So it's just for maintaining power while winding and not throughout the entire cycle? OK. Thanks for the information.
    Chris
    So Many Clocks, So Little Time

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Waltham Regulator Loses Power (By: ChrisBeattie)

    There is a spring between that wheel and the drum.
    It is often a minimal spring of maybe 1/2 turn.
    Sometime it is just the cut of the brass. It only has to run
    the clock for a minute or so while winding.
    Tightening it up will only make the clock run stronger for
    about 10-20 minutes, at most. After that you are back
    on the weight and drum.
    Your problem is not related to this, you have some other poor
    running issue.
    Check the pulleys. They are often overlooked.
    Tinker Dwight

  5. #5

    Default Re: Waltham Regulator Loses Power

    I agree with the others. The maintaining gear should not be in effect until power is released from the wheel (winding). It is quite possible that the needed spring is missing or broken, but that would not affect the clock at all except that you lose a couple of seconds in time (whatever it takes to wind the weights). Since it works well on the test stand, look for obstructions in the case. Maybe the pendulum rubbing the back of the seat board, or something like that. Also look for the cables rubbing. That will stop the clock. Also look at the pulleys as Tinker suggested.
    Another possible is that while on the test stand you were using the weights in the normal fashion - hung under the movement. That would give you twice the weight that you have when the weight is hanging from the pulley system in the case. It may have run on the stand because of being over powered.
    A man with a clock always knows the time. A man with two clocks is never sure.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Waltham Regulator Loses Power (By: shutterbug)

    Actually the direction of the cable has no effect on the tension
    or at lease only one pulleys friction.
    The weight is divided by 2 by the pulley on the weight.
    The tension on the cable is the weight/2.
    Tinker Dwight

  7. #7

    Default Re: Waltham Regulator Loses Power (By: ChrisBeattie)

    It doesn't appear to be compounded in the photo. The power would not be divided.
    That weight looks to be homemade. I might be a bit under what is needed, or borderline. I am not familiar with that movement but similar compounded movements would require around 6 or 7#. Is your weight around 3 1/2#?
    Easy to check the maintaining power function, just remove the weight. It should continue ticking for several minutes.
    Willie X

  8. #8

    Default Re: Waltham Regulator Loses Power (By: Willie X)

    is this not a second pulley, i.e., compounded?

    it would be interesting to know the weight of the weight.


    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Screen Shot 2017-04-15 at 11.22.24 AM.jpg  
    i collect antique clocks because i get all that extra time...

  9. #9

    Default Re: Waltham Regulator Loses Power (By: ChrisBeattie)

    Yes it is! That weight would need to be around 6 or 7#.

    Also, that cord looks a bit crowded on the drum. And, is it rubbing where it goes between the maintaining pawl's arbor and corner post?
    Neither of these two areas would make a big difference but could decrease the power slightly.
    Willie X

  10. #10

    Default Re: Waltham Regulator Loses Power (By: Willie X)

    i blew up the first photo but couldn't really make out whether the weight cord is bumping against the corner post and pawl arbor... hmm..

    also... when you oiled, did you put a subtle little smear on the pallets? and... and maybe on the crutch pin where it goes through the crutch plate/pendulum? i've found that too much crutch plate slop is noisy but workable, where too little will definitely affect power.

    grasping at straws, here... more photos and info, please! 8-)
    i collect antique clocks because i get all that extra time...

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Waltham Regulator Loses Power (By: smike)

    The Geneva stop looks wrong. It looks like someone replaced
    part of it and it only counts half the teeth.
    Can we see a picture of it when it stops?
    Tinker Dwight

  12. #12

    Default Re: Waltham Regulator Loses Power (By: Tinker Dwight)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tinker Dwight View Post
    The Geneva stop looks wrong. It looks like someone replaced
    part of it and it only counts half the teeth.
    Can we see a picture of it when it stops?
    Tinker Dwight

    or, just take off the geneva stop and see if it keeps running ...
    i collect antique clocks because i get all that extra time...

  13. #13

    Default Re: Waltham Regulator Loses Power

    It looks like it winds clockwise, and the stops just locked it in the highest position. By the way, I can't remember if the maintenance wheel should be opposite the click wheel like that. Could that be stopping the clock?
    A man with a clock always knows the time. A man with two clocks is never sure.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Waltham Regulator Loses Power (By: shutterbug)

    Quote Originally Posted by shutterbug View Post
    It looks like it winds clockwise, and the stops just locked it in the highest position. By the way, I can't remember if the maintenance wheel should be opposite the click wheel like that. Could that be stopping the clock?

    It needs to be between the main ratchet wheel and the main wheel. That
    looks right to me.
    It winds clockwise and the stop is at full wind. What I don't like
    about it is that it looks to move two teeth instead of one tooth for
    each turn of the arbor. It would on run half as long as expected.
    Tinker Dwight

  15. #15

    Default Re: Waltham Regulator Loses Power (By: Tinker Dwight)

    I meant that they are winding in different directions, Tinker. The main click turns clockwise but the maintenance click turns CCW. I don't have one to look at, but that just seems wrong in my mind.
    A man with a clock always knows the time. A man with two clocks is never sure.

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