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  1. #16

    Default Re: Cuckoo music no start or sometimes slow start-stops just fine (By: Randy Beckett)

    Many thanks. I will try later today to locate those adjustment screws.

    Is it typical to have an older musical clock play the same song on 1/2 hr and hr?

    Is it possible to adjust it to play only once on the hour?

    It is really a nice sounding Thorens music box.

  2. #17

    Default Re: Cuckoo music no start or sometimes slow start-stops just fine (By: KBPinNH)

    Most clocks that play on the hour and half hour have two tunes. Single tune music boxes typically play on the hour only.
    A man with a clock always knows the time. A man with two clocks is never sure.

  3. #18

    Default Re: Cuckoo music no start or sometimes slow start-stops just fine (By: shutterbug)

    I am hopeful to be working in the right direction, and know what to be expecting as my outcome:
    Another clock expert who has worked on the exact same movement suggests

    "Hi, These movements can be real tricky to get working right. I'd try oiling the spiral gear that operates the governor fan first, also check to make sure there is slack in the gear. I've found that by adjusting the screw on the bottom of the screw gear that sometimes that gets it going. If there is only one song it should only play on the hour. As long as the music side is getting tripped and wants to play it probably just needs some lubrication."

    This suggestion corroborates others on this thread.

    I am hopeful to be working toward solving this mystery.
    Thank you very much

  4. #19

    Default Re: Cuckoo music no start or sometimes slow start-stops just fine (By: KBPinNH)

    Quote Originally Posted by KBPinNH View Post
    "Hi, These movements can be real tricky to get working right. I'd try oiling the spiral gear that operates the governor fan first, also check to make sure there is slack in the gear. I've found that by adjusting the screw on the bottom of the screw gear that sometimes that gets it going. If there is only one song it should only play on the hour. As long as the music side is getting tripped and wants to play it probably just needs some lubrication."

    I just finished a movement exactly like this one. I agree, the worn gear and its mating gear are likely the main source of the problem. Of course general wear and tear also. I would add that you need to very carefully adjust the meshing of the worm gear. If it is off even a little bit, hard starting and slow performance can result.

    There are three main adjustments. The one already mentioned above, the in and out adjustment for the worms mating gear and of course the distance between the vertical center line of the worm and the center of the mating gear. The carriage the worm sets in is pinned at the bottom and held fast with a screw. The may be enough slop in the screws hole to adjust the meshing. I had to move mine about 0.010 thou. away from the mating gear.
    When adjusted the worm gear should only move up and down a small fraction when the direction of gears are reverse (using thumb power). At the bottom of the hole the worm sets in, is a small ball bearing. Be sure not to lose it when cleaning. If a dimple has worn on the end of the worm shaft where it rides on that ball, grind to just remove it and polish it to a mirror finish.
    When properly adjusted I don't think you need to oil the worm. I didn't and I when i was finished I thought the music then played too fast. Cheers!

  5. #20
    Registered user. RJSoftware's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cuckoo music no start or sometimes slow start-stops just fine

    On my last music box, a week or so ago, I had great results adjusting the comb distance from the pin wheel. I got more consistency when I tweaked the comb out just a hair (infant blonde arm hair) out farther than it was.

    When the pins of the pin barrel twang the tines of the music box comb they add to the resistance in the music box train (train are gears related to a function ). The comb is normally adjustable as two screws are set down tight to hold it in position after it is set in proper location.

    Mine was stopping intermittently but adding a very tiny tiny tiny tiny tiny tin---eeeee amount of distance more reduced the amount of strain required to turn the barrel, hence making the music more reliable.

    Now, as I understand, you can destroy a music box comb by either rolling it backwards or rolling it without the governor. I believe it called free running it.

    I don't think you will have issue with removing the music box. But don't know your skill level.

    There are actually solder welded under the comb tines that are there to adjust the tone of each tine. I think mishandling the roller with the governor detached can cause the attached weight to fall off.

    When you adjust the distance you might want to establish what the distance is at the beginning. Use feeler gauges or pin gauges to establish what the existing distance is and then unclamp the two screws and set the distance to the next size gauge.

    Also note that if the music sounds real crappy it may be that you have to adjust longwise. I start out at the low note side and set the farthest pin on that side with the last tine on that side. It's real picky because you got to square it up.

    You can roll the barrel forward (in normal direction) and stop at the end of the song. At that location will be a clear spot (no pins) this is the best spot to set the depth as you don't want to set depth with a pin pressing on tine.

    You may wish to take a picture of it too as you will want to set it up back the way it was. This may help.

    On the accidental turning backwards or forwards in a free run, most can survive a little abuse but you would certainly want to avoid a free run that a full chain sweep would do. On other types of cuckoo movements this might happen if the governor becomes loose and the chain does a free run. So on those it's important to test the resistance prior to install.

    On yours I imagine you could have a free run if somehow the governor section disconnected. So say your adjusting the gear and worm drive distance, I would test pull the chain by finger to make sure the gear does not skip. In other words, don't test with weights. Establish that it works correct prior to using a weight.

    Look under the bottom of the comb on the tines, you will see what I mean. The solder is there to add bass to the notes.

    Here is article on the subject of music box repair. You may find it helpful.
    http://www.intertique.com/PurchasingMusicBoxPart4.html

    RJ
    Last edited by RJSoftware; 04-14-2017 at 04:33 PM.
    Good clocks always know the time, that's what they tell.

    Bad clocks get glued with macaroni, in Steampunk Hell.

    Ahh, the crunchy sound of victory https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGaVUApDVuY

  6. #21

    Default Re: Cuckoo music no start or sometimes slow start-stops just fine (By: RJSoftware)

    Okay! Got it. As soon as I can, which is after this Easter weekend, I will be inspecting the mesh of the gears. I can't wait to get back to my project. Thanks for the detailed road map.

    Skill level- motivated novice -I have worked on 3 cuckoo clocks, cleaned, disassembled movement, put back together, created new bellows, and rebuilt a music box. I do understand exactly the caution with the tines on the comb. Although, I have never seen this kind of movement before. Since I am fairly new to clock tinkering, without too much repetition, I need to re-familiarize myself and learn the language and parts.
    [ However, with my science background w tons of lab work, textile restorer (now retired) and DIY motivation, I know to approach with caution and patience. ]
    Note: with gratitude for this forum, thank you for such a nice welcome

  7. #22

    Default Re: Cuckoo music no start or sometimes slow start-stops just fine (By: KBPinNH)

    Thanks forum! I have success. Although somewhat miraculously.
    Finally able to return to my clock since the family ties at Easter.

    First I cleaned the oil from the last time I oiled the vertical worm gear spinning the governor pivot fans.And then re-oiled.
    Result: Tried the music no go by itself.

    Secondly, I tried to budge the worm gear lower screw. Too tight. Did not move. Then I jiggled the worm gear up and down a bit - there was some slop to the vertical gear allowing me to push it up and down.

    Thirdly, Giving up on the 3 options to adjust worm gear; From the outside of clock ,I loosened the 2 screws holding the music box block ONLY one full 360 degree turn! A smidgen. I checked to see if the music gears moved from the "other gear wheel" could not tell.

    Result : Tried the music no go by itself

    Thirdly, I noticed the horizontal wire from the count wheel ( bright horizontal silver wire just behind movment plate- see pics) was not pulling enough to trigger the "lever" which has a string hooked onto its loop - it raises the hook to start the music (sorry no technical language here). This might be the hang up of starting. So I thought to tighten or bend it to shorten the pull on the "lever" essentially pulling it like I when I pull the string to get the pivot fans to keep spinning.
    Result: no change.
    Then, I pushed this bright horizontal wire coming from the count wheel UP to be more horizontal, and also noticed it may have been rubbing against the interior movement....voila! Success.
    So who knows!

    Maybe a combo of all 4 touches. Maybe the most important tinker was jiggling the worm gear up and down a bit since it has a ball bearing in there. Maybe it loosened the ball bearing to move more easily, combined with getting the wire from count wheel to move more easily.

    I am so grateful I did not have to take this clock apart this time!!

    Glad to hear the music again!! And it is playing at a slow even pace.

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