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  1. #1
    Registered User WRabbit's Avatar
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    Cool Weight Driven Vienna Strike Issue

    I’m having a strike train problem with a 2 weight Resch (Remember) movement. It strikes the hour correctly, but it repeats the hour count at the half hour. I’ve discovered the Resch intermediate wheel has 2 opposing pins equidistant from the center arbor, while the one on my Becker has 2 opposing pins at different distance from the center arbor (see attached pics). I’ve searched the site and what little I can find on Vienna intermediate wheels is the pins are staggered like my Becker.

    A few comments:

    • The Resch has the snail mounted on a star wheel and the Becker has the snail mounted on the hour pipe.
    • The Resch uses a diamond shaped tension spring under the minute canon. It’s in place, but this thing is a bear to get lined up so it strikes correctly.
    • The Resch is a repeater It has a hole in the side of the case with a cord sticking out.


    Is this strike behavior normal? What am I missing?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 2IMG_9099.JPG   3IMG_9153.JPG   4IMG_9152.JPG   6IMG_8786.JPG   7IMG_9149.JPG  

    8IMG_8760.JPG   9IMG_7653.JPG  


  2. #2
    Registered User Randy Beckett's Avatar
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    Default Re: Weight Driven Vienna Strike Issue (By: WRabbit)

    Quote Originally Posted by WRabbit View Post
    Is this strike behavior normal? What am I missing?

    I don't think so.

    If you look closely at the rack, you will see that the first tooth is shorter than the rest of the teeth. I think the half hour lift pin should only lift the long lever enough to release the first tooth only, resulting in a single strike on the half hour. Could be the lift pin is bent upwards some, resulting in a higher than normal lift. Also could be that the bridge that holds the intermediate wheel is locked down higher than it should be, holding the intermediate wheel, and lift pin, a little too high.
    Last edited by Randy Beckett; 04-03-2017 at 12:46 AM.
    "Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws."- Plato (428 - 348 BC)

  3. #3

    Default Re: Weight Driven Vienna Strike Issue (By: Randy Beckett)

    With a flirt kicking off the strike, you don't have much control over the drop of the rack. It will drop to a step on the snail.

    I'd accept the hour strike at the half hour, unless the strike weight was dropping a lot faster than the hour weight. If that was the case, I would remove the second pin.

    Ralph

  4. #4
    Registered User WRabbit's Avatar
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    Default Re: Weight Driven Vienna Strike Issue (By: Ralph)

    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Beckett View Post
    If you look closely at the rack, you will see that the first tooth is shorter than the rest of the teeth. I think the half hour lift pin should only lift the long lever enough to release the first tooth only, resulting in a single strike on the half hour.
    The rack does have a short first tooth, but the pins on the intermediate wheel are equal distance from the arbor (see pic), resulting in a full strike count twice each hour. The wheel appears to have been manufactured this way. Due to this difference I thought this movement may work in a different manner than the Becker I compared it to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Beckett View Post
    Could be the lift pin is bent upwards some, resulting in a higher than normal lift. Also could be that the bridge that holds the intermediate wheel is locked down higher than it should be, holding the intermediate wheel, and lift pin, a little too high.
    The pins are straight enough to my untrained eye and the bridge doesn't have noticeable play (again, the eye thing).

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph View Post
    I'd accept the hour strike at the half hour, unless the strike weight was dropping a lot faster than the hour weight. If that was the case, I would remove the second pin.
    The weight does drop faster than it should. However, I don’t feel comfortable altering the way the movement is designed to work (by removing a pin). I’m hoping the current wheel design is normal and the problem is caused by lack of proper setup.

    Thanks to both of you for taking the time to comment.

    Jim
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails IMG_9156.jpg  


  5. #5

    Default Re: Weight Driven Vienna Strike Issue (By: WRabbit)

    I am by no means an expert on these movements, but, it seems like one of the lift pins is bent a little bit, to give more lift to the rack hook. Could the opposite pin be bent a little to give less lift to the rack hook on the half hour?

  6. #6

    Default Re: Weight Driven Vienna Strike Issue (By: dickstorer)

    The pins do not determine the lift of the rack hook. The movement uses a spring loaded flirt, that is loaded and released by the pins.

    If the strike weight is coming down faster the time weight, I suspect the second pin was added .

    Bending the pins will only change very slightly, the point at where/when the strike sequence begins.

    Ralph

  7. #7

    Default Re: Weight Driven Vienna Strike Issue (By: Ralph)

    I guess I am just to dumb to get it. I do not see how those pins can not affect how high the rack hook is lifted. And, Ralph, I do not understand about the spring loaded flirt. If it was a 3 weight grand sonnerie I could understand it. The strike weight is falling faster because the hour strike is actuated twice each hour. Maybe I am just getting to old.

  8. #8
    Registered User Randy Beckett's Avatar
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    Default Re: Weight Driven Vienna Strike Issue (By: dickstorer)

    I suppose the easiest way to figure out what it is supposed to do is to leave the dial off and index it very slowly by hand and watch what happens as the long lever is being lifted as it comes up on the hour, or half-hour. It will either drop the rack a single tooth at first, then the rest when it gets closer to the strike point, or the rack won't move at all until it drops all at once. This would tell what it likely should do on the half-hour.
    "Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws."- Plato (428 - 348 BC)

  9. #9

    Default Re: Weight Driven Vienna Strike Issue (By: dickstorer)

    "dumb", no, it's me... I should have looked closer. I thought it had a flirt mechanism. I see now, that it does not. Mea culpa...

    I'll still stand by, someone added a pin, if the weight is coming down much faster than the time side, but based on the rack's short tooth, it does suggest the half hour pin is mislocated, by error, wrong replacement, or ??

    I'd relocate the half hour pin.

    Ralph

  10. #10

    Default Re: Weight Driven Vienna Strike Issue (By: Ralph)

    Before relocating the pin, try just a little bending, to give a little less lift.

  11. #11
    Registered User Randy Beckett's Avatar
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    Default Re: Weight Driven Vienna Strike Issue (By: dickstorer)

    Can't tell for sure from the picture, but it looks like the point of the rack hook might have been possibly rounded off (filed on) at some time or another. If he rack helper spring is a little too strong, I can see where the momentum of the moving rack might cause the rack hook to jump over the second, and remaining teeth, until the snail stopped it.
    "Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws."- Plato (428 - 348 BC)

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Weight Driven Vienna Strike Issue (By: Randy Beckett)

    Looking at the levers, you'd need to lace the 1/2 pin at almost the
    center of the wheel to not lift it too far and have the rack drop.
    A slight bend of the pin would not be enough.
    Tinker Dwight

  13. #13
    Registered User WRabbit's Avatar
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    Default Re: Weight Driven Vienna Strike Issue (By: Tinker Dwight)

    Bending the pin didn't make a difference. I think this may be a factory error and the solution is to relocate the pin. I decided to put the movement back together and will consider moving the pin in the future.

    I appreciate the input on this issue.

    Jim


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