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Thread: Intrinsic value

  1. #16

    Default Re: Intrinsic value (By: roughbarked)

    Quote Originally Posted by roughbarked View Post
    The mention of climate change adds a another dimension to the whole intrinsic nature of values. My father-in-law was fond of using old catch phrases, ie: "it isn't what it is worth, it is what it costs".

    It would seem rather ironic that the mass production of things is what has stripped the intrinsic values and most likely also the most recent cause of the effect of climate change.
    Volcanos belch out more than we ever could. I think climate changer's need to pass a law making it illegal for a volcano to erupt. lol

    Robert

  2. #17
    Registered User musicguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Intrinsic value

    RE: "it isn't what it is worth, it is what it costs"
    I have to relearn this lesson on a regular basis.

    I could buy a watch or clock that is currently in great working order for $150.00
    but I choose to buy the broken one for $20 and
    put $400 of work into it, and it still isn't as nice.


    Rob

  3. #18
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    Default Re: Intrinsic value (By: musicguy)

    Quote Originally Posted by musicguy View Post
    I have to relearn this lesson on a regular basis.

    I could buy a watch or clock that is currently in great working order for $150.00
    but I choose to buy the broken one for $20 and
    put $400 of work into it, and it still isn't as nice.


    Rob

    At the same time, there are watches sold as broken that are nice watches and can be fixed for $20.

  4. #19

    Default Re: Intrinsic value (By: roughbarked)

    Quote Originally Posted by roughbarked View Post
    At the same time, there are watches sold as broken that are nice watches and can be fixed for $20.
    I stick to weight driven clocks usually, at least I know the spring doesn't need replacing!
    Nick, lots to learn, late starter.

  5. #20
    Technical Admin Tom McIntyre's Avatar
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    Default Re: Intrinsic value (By: Accutronica)

    Quote Originally Posted by Accutronica View Post
    Volcanos belch out more than we ever could. I think climate changer's need to pass a law making it illegal for a volcano to erupt. lol

    Robert
    When I was working in the oil patch just before I retired, I would have felt obliged to support this view. However, there is pretty good evidence against it. This article in Scientific American lays it out pretty well. https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...oes-or-humans/

    A salient quote is:
    According to the U.S. Geological Survey (USGS), the world’s volcanoes, both on land and undersea, generate about 200 million tons of carbon dioxide (CO2) annually, while our automotive and industrial activities cause some 24 billion tons of CO2 emissions every year worldwide. Despite the arguments to the contrary, the facts speak for themselves: Greenhouse gas emissions from volcanoes comprise less than one percent of those generated by today’s human endeavors.
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  6. #21
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    Default Re: Intrinsic value (By: Britannicus)

    Among Britannicus's original four points, I think it is the first and last which weigh most heavily with me. I would add another, which is that a working object which is still able to perform its original function after hundreds of years is probably the nearest approach I can make to time-travel – a means of escaping from the shadow of a very disconcerting world and inserting myself into another kind of continuity altogether. Even static objects like books or paintings can do this, but clocks and watches are in a class of their own because they have both sound and motion. These are things which remain even if the item is not in its original state. My James McCabe duplex watch (circa 1810) is outwardly very far from its original form, both case and hands being utterly wrong; but still, if I put it to my ear and close my eyes, I can legitimately tell myself that if I could travel back to a time when Abraham Lincoln and Felix Mendelssohn were babies, and if the watch were restored to the 18-carat gold pair-case which would almost certainly have clothed it at that time, I would still be hearing exactly the same sound. And I like to imagine that, if I could only focus my thought single-mindedly enough, I would actually make that journey.

    Oliver Mundy.

  7. #22

    Default Re: Intrinsic value (By: Lychnobius)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lychnobius View Post
    Among Britannicus's original four points, I think it is the first and last which weigh most heavily with me. I would add another, which is that a working object which is still able to perform its original function after hundreds of years is probably the nearest approach I can make to time-travel – a means of escaping from the shadow of a very disconcerting world and inserting myself into another kind of continuity altogether. Even static objects like books or paintings can do this, but clocks and watches are in a class of their own because they have both sound and motion. These are things which remain even if the item is not in its original state. My James McCabe duplex watch (circa 1810) is outwardly very far from its original form, both case and hands being utterly wrong; but still, if I put it to my ear and close my eyes, I can legitimately tell myself that if I could travel back to a time when Abraham Lincoln and Felix Mendelssohn were babies, and if the watch were restored to the 18-carat gold pair-case which would almost certainly have clothed it at that time, I would still be hearing exactly the same sound. And I like to imagine that, if I could only focus my thought single-mindedly enough, I would actually make that journey.

    Oliver Mundy.
    Absolutely, I live in a modern bungalow surrounded by bits of machinery made before the industrial revolution really got going, before mechanisation and mass production. Hand made in basic workshops often by people who could not read but here we are 300 years later and they still tell the time as they were designed to do.
    Nick, lots to learn, late starter.

  8. #23
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    Default Re: Intrinsic value (By: Lychnobius)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lychnobius View Post
    Among Britannicus's original four points, I think it is the first and last which weigh most heavily with me. I would add another, which is that a working object which is still able to perform its original function after hundreds of years is probably the nearest approach I can make to time-travel – a means of escaping from the shadow of a very disconcerting world and inserting myself into another kind of continuity altogether. Even static objects like books or paintings can do this, but clocks and watches are in a class of their own because they have both sound and motion. These are things which remain even if the item is not in its original state. My James McCabe duplex watch (circa 1810) is outwardly very far from its original form, both case and hands being utterly wrong; but still, if I put it to my ear and close my eyes, I can legitimately tell myself that if I could travel back to a time when Abraham Lincoln and Felix Mendelssohn were babies, and if the watch were restored to the 18-carat gold pair-case which would almost certainly have clothed it at that time, I would still be hearing exactly the same sound. And I like to imagine that, if I could only focus my thought single-mindedly enough, I would actually make that journey.

    Oliver Mundy.
    You certainly took me there.

  9. #24
    Registered User musicguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Intrinsic value (By: roughbarked)

    I can legitimately tell myself that if I could travel back to a time when Abraham Lincoln and Felix Mendelssohn were babies, and if the watch were restored to the 18-carat gold pair-case which would almost certainly have clothed it at that time, I would still be hearing exactly the same sound. And I like to imagine that, if I could only focus my thought single-mindedly enough, I would actually make that journey.

    I know that is is WAY off topic, but there is a book Time and Again from 1970
    which is a great read. The quote above really reminded me of this book.
    If you have the time find it, and read it.


    Rob

  10. #25
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    Default Re: Intrinsic value

    Quote Originally Posted by musicguy View Post
    I know that is is WAY off topic, but there is a book Time and Again from 1970
    which is a great read. The quote above really reminded me of this book.
    If you have the time find it, and read it.


    Rob
    I really doubt it is all that far off topic at all. Thanks.

    There is something intrinsically valuable about things that were made to take to war that somehow survived to be in my possession. Maybe it is that inner glow?
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  11. #26

    Default Re: Intrinsic value (By: kurtnz)

    Off topic doesn't matter.
    Sometimes this site hosts a thread which rambles away from - and around - and over and under - the original concept.
    It is always a delight.
    Paul

  12. #27
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    Default Re: Intrinsic value (By: Audemars)

    Quote Originally Posted by Audemars View Post
    Off topic doesn't matter.
    Sometimes this site hosts a thread which rambles away from - and around - and over and under - the original concept.
    It is always a delight.
    Paul
    I am so glad to hear you confirm that.

  13. #28
    Technical Admin Tom McIntyre's Avatar
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    Default Re: Intrinsic value (By: roughbarked)

    My thought is that too often we restrict our discussion to particular aspects of time and lose opportunities to explore interesting ideas.

    When we had the Symposium in Pasadena a couple of years ago the theme was intentionally broad and covered everything from historical timekeepers and the development of time systems to the age of the universe and the search for the best possible frequency standard. There were excursions into biological time and rapidly evolving life forms as well as perceptual time and the near death experience. For me, that is what makes this hobby so fascinating. The wonder at these things is an essential part of being human.
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  14. #29
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    Default Re: Intrinsic value (By: Tom McIntyre)

    To be a bit of a pedant, we are actually discussing 'extrinsic' not 'intrinsic' values, aren't we? The intrinsic value of something actually refers to its monetary value.

  15. #30
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    Default Re: Intrinsic value (By: stewey)

    We are discussing the extrinsic or collateral value associated with an object. However, I do not believe the intrinsic value is the monetary value. That value is also distinct. The intrinsic value is its real worth that might not be expressed in monetary terms. If intrinsic and monetary were the same all identical examples would trade for the same price, in the same place, at the same time.

    If intrinsic value and monetary value were the same, why would anyone buy anything they were not going to apply to a productive task?
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