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Thread: 23j Ball

  1. #1

    Default 23j Ball

    Was there ever a 23j walthan Ball produced? Have heard many arguements over this. Please help.

  2. #2

    Smile Re: 23j Ball

    Quote Originally Posted by fergusonjohna View Post
    Was there ever a 23j walthan Ball produced? Have heard many arguements over this. Please help.
    Hi fergusonjohna:

    Welcome to the NAWCC American Pocket Watch Message Board!

    There was a previous (about 4+ years ago) thread on this subject, but I've been unable to find it. I believe that nobody participating in that thread had actually seen a 23-jewel Waltham-Ball movement.

    Basically, Waltham was said to have made some 16-size, 23-jewel Official RR Standard (ORRS) watches for Ball in the serial number range B 060,701 - B 061,000 (page 35 of American Railroad Watches, George E. Townsend, Col. G.E. Townsend, Alma, MI, 1977).

    Ed Ueberall and I maintain a data base of surviving railroad watches (and other watches of interest to us). Our data base contains the reported Waltham-Ball ORRS watches, all 16-size, 17-jewel:

    B 060,706
    B 060,708
    B 060,713
    B 060,729
    B 060,729
    B 060,759
    B 060,768
    B 060,771
    B 060,773
    B 060,778
    B 060,783
    B 060,809
    B 060,809
    B 060,812
    B 060,836
    B 060,841
    B 060,842
    B 060,863
    B 060,869
    B 060,972

    A picture of serial number B 060,915's movement was published on page 151 of Complete Price Guide to Watches, No 16, C. Shugart and R. Gilbert, Cooksey Shugart Publications, Cleveland, TN, 1996. The picture probably appears in other editions. It's caption states that it is a 23-jewel movement, but the photo and its reproduction is too poor to actually see the markings or details.

    Perhaps your new thread will bring a 23-jewel Waltham-Ball movement to light.
    Kent
    That guy down in Georgia

  3. #3
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    Default Re: 23j Ball

    Quote Originally Posted by Kent View Post


    A picture of serial number B 060,915's movement was published on page 151 of Complete Price Guide to Watches, No 16, C. Shugart and R. Gilbert, Cooksey Shugart Publications, Cleveland, TN, 1996. The picture probably appears in other editions. It's caption states that it is a 23-jewel movement, but the photo and its reproduction is too poor to actually see the markings or details.

    Perhaps your new thread will bring a 23-jewel Waltham-Ball movement to light.
    In addition to what Kent said..............

    The picture is still included. In the description you find very rare in bold letters and the watch is given a 5 star rarity.

  4. #4
    Technical Admin Tom McIntyre's Avatar
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    Default Re: 23j Ball (By: luvsthetick)

    When looking at anomalies in books like the price guide, I have been told that sometimes interesting strange facts are inserted to provide a "plagiarism trap" for those using the source to produce their own list of information. Since the information is not real anyone else who references it must be taking it from the trap source.
    Tom McIntyre Click me.
    If you don't learn to laugh at trouble,
    you won't have anything to laugh at when you're old.
    Will Rogers

  5. #5

    Default Re: 23j Ball (By: Tom McIntyre)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom McIntyre View Post
    When looking at anomalies in books like the price guide, I have been told that sometimes interesting strange facts are inserted to provide a "plagiarism trap" for those using the source to produce their own list of information. Since the information is not real anyone else who references it must be taking it from the trap source.

    I have heard this too...The 18s 25j Ben Franklin is one of these "traps?"
    John Cote
    Watch Collector (pocket & wrist), Clock Admirer, Time Nerd...

  6. #6

    Thumbs up Re: 23j Ball (By: Kent)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kent View Post
    ... There was a previous (about 4+ years ago) thread on this subject, but I've been unable to find it. I believe that nobody participating in that thread had actually seen a 23-jewel Waltham-Ball movement. ...
    Thanks to johnbscott the earlier thread on the 23-jewel Waltham-Ball can be seen.
    Kent
    That guy down in Georgia

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