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  1. #1

    Default William Ward verge dial clock early 19th C

    Not a straightforward purchase, the auctioneer made a mistake and appeared to have soldit to somebody else but I got the invoice, then it turned out I had won the auction and the auctioneer noted the bid incorrectly on the system.

    Anyway, on its way to me shortly, I wanted a silvered dial but this one seemed in good condition. Turns out it may not be as original as I thought.

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    Nick, lots to learn, late starter.

  2. #2

    Default Re: William Ward verge dial clock early 19th C (By: novicetimekeeper)

    What are your suspicions on originality? A silver dial would be nice.... and a saltbox case.

    Ralph

  3. #3

    Default Re: William Ward verge dial clock early 19th C (By: Ralph)

    At the moment just a condition report that appeared after the fact. Says replacement case and repainted dial.

    Silvered dials go for a lot but at least you don't have the problem of somebody repainting them. I shall wait and see now, but as long as I can get it to work at reasonable cost I won't be too unhappy, it looks attractive I thought. I have a space identified for it where I was going to put another clock I lost out on, that did have a silvered dial but was about 60 years later.

    Before seeing the late report my only concern was what that stamp says on the inside of one plate.

    Will Ward certainly existed, and at the right time I think.
    Nick, lots to learn, late starter.

  4. #4
    Registered user. Chris Radano's Avatar
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    Default Re: William Ward verge dial clock early 19th C (By: novicetimekeeper)

    One clue to either a replacement dial, or replacement hands (or even replacement case?) is the tip of the hour hand is a bit short. This would be unlikely for an English clock. The hands may be authentic Regency hands, at least in style.

  5. #5

    Default Re: William Ward verge dial clock early 19th C (By: Chris Radano)

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Radano View Post
    One clue to either a replacement dial, or replacement hands (or even replacement case?) is the tip of the hour hand is a bit short. This would be unlikely for an English clock. The hands may be authentic Regency hands, at least in style.
    I would just see that as a clue to possible replacement hands. The hands need to match the dial not the case or movement surely? There is no suggestion from the condition report that the dial is a replacement, one of the things I did check in the pictures was dial attachment to the movement which all looked fine. The cases/dials come in standard sizes so swapping is as easy as on a longcase but without the additional problem of seatboards as the dial attaches to the case and the movement hangs from it.

    BTW I was unable to reconcile the hands, they don't seem to quite fit anything in Rose's book.
    Nick, lots to learn, late starter.

  6. #6
    Registered User ClipClock's Avatar
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    Default Re: William Ward verge dial clock early 19th C (By: novicetimekeeper)

    I wondered about the hands too, also the bottom writing in the fancy swirls is not quite straight, but then again maybe thats just the way it was made. But its a handsome looking clock and the movement looks very nice indeed!

  7. #7
    Registered user. Chris Radano's Avatar
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    Default Re: William Ward verge dial clock early 19th C (By: ClipClock)

    Yeah, I guess you're right it could be just the hands that are replacement. To me the whole case, dial font, and hands are Regency. At least the movement would be on the more desirable side if it's not original to the case. To me, the hands look fine in that style but are incorrect length. Sort of like Vulliamy clock hands, but not quite.

  8. #8

    Default Re: William Ward verge dial clock early 19th C (By: ClipClock)

    Quote Originally Posted by ClipClock View Post
    I wondered about the hands too, also the bottom writing in the fancy swirls is not quite straight, but then again maybe thats just the way it was made. But its a handsome looking clock and the movement looks very nice indeed!
    If the dial repainting turns out to be inadequate I do at least know a top notch dial repainter who can sort it out.
    Nick, lots to learn, late starter.

  9. #9

    Default Re: William Ward verge dial clock early 19th C (By: Chris Radano)

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Radano View Post
    Yeah, I guess you're right it could be just the hands that are replacement. To me the whole case, dial font, and hands are Regency. At least the movement would be on the more desirable side if it's not original to the case. To me, the hands look fine in that style but are incorrect length. Sort of like Vulliamy clock hands, but not quite.
    The maker is listed in the CC up till 1794 as far as I can see. That fits with the movement, would be an early painted dial but they had already been in longcase for 15 years or so. It has a narrow wood surround so that looks right for the period. It should be a bit earlier than Regency but we are in the right area.
    Nick, lots to learn, late starter.

  10. #10
    Registered user. Chris Radano's Avatar
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    Default Re: William Ward verge dial clock early 19th C (By: novicetimekeeper)

    Your clock case and dial look later than 1794 to me. Hey, I could be wrong. But my feeling is the case and dial are later than the movement. I'm not just trying to be contradictory. For example, recently a salt box case, 14" painted dial, with an "A" frame anchor movement was sold. That maker was listed right at 1800. Your dial is a repaint, but the numerals are larger, more like 19th. Just my gut feeling. I think you have an old clock, but I believe the movement was put into a slightly newer case. Perhaps the original was damaged when it was 20 years old? We'll never know for sure.

  11. #11

    Default Re: William Ward verge dial clock early 19th C (By: Chris Radano)

    I didn't really want a saltbox case as the space I have will only just take this clock. I should, perhaps, have held out for a silvered brass dial one. They retail for around £5k but I guess you can pick them up at auction for around £1500-£2000 plus fees.

    Ideally I would like a local one but I've never seen an early Dorset dial clock.
    Nick, lots to learn, late starter.

  12. #12
    Registered user. jmclaugh's Avatar
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    Default Re: William Ward verge dial clock early 19th C (By: novicetimekeeper)

    Very nice early dial clock Nick and verge is unusual and they were often converted to anchor. Two makers are listed by Loomes in London with the name William Ward both around the same period, one is listed as apprenticed 1793 and CC 1800, the other apprenticed 1785. The minute hand is a tad short and the hour hand a tad long but they look fine on the dial.

    It will interesting to find out what the stamp on the inside of the frontplate is. If you haven't spotted it there is a very similar looking movement in Rose's book on page 141 with the same backcock dating to the same sort of period. The plates look tapered, are they?
    Jonathan.

  13. #13

    Default Re: William Ward verge dial clock early 19th C (By: jmclaugh)

    Yes tapered plates.

    I didn't get far with reference books but found an old auction listing for a Will Ward clock with more info on him provided by Bonhams. He was originally in Holborne Hill which is just a mile and a half from Bloomsbury.

    I was looking in Rose last night and flicked past that one. I agree very similar movement. The pillars look to be rounded on the end rather than the chamfer in the book.

    I can see why the case is said to be a replacement, those round bottom cases are there to accommodate the longer pendulum of the anchor escapement.

    I shall have to wait now and see if the dial shows signs of not being original to the movement. That would be a disappointment, the case itself is an early one with the narrow surround, until it arrives I won't be able to tell the profile nor manufactururing method of the bezel. Obviously I would hope for cast rather than spun.

    Although it isn't as original as I had hoped I think it will look fine on the wall and it is my first verge clock. I hope for more but perhaps will stick to brass dials in future.
    Nick, lots to learn, late starter.

  14. #14

    Default Re: William Ward verge dial clock early 19th C (By: novicetimekeeper)

    It has taken a week for mailboxes to pick this up from the auction house and now it is in the packing queue for an indeterminable period. When they eventually pack it they will contact me again and ask if I want special overnight delivery, well yes if it were a week ago.
    Nick, lots to learn, late starter.

  15. #15
    Registered user. jmclaugh's Avatar
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    Default Re: William Ward verge dial clock early 19th C (By: novicetimekeeper)

    Quote Originally Posted by novicetimekeeper View Post
    It has taken a week for mailboxes to pick this up from the auction house and now it is in the packing queue for an indeterminable period. When they eventually pack it they will contact me again and ask if I want special overnight delivery, well yes if it were a week ago.

    Is it coming via a stagecoach? It would be in keeping with the period..
    Jonathan.

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