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  1. #16

    Default Re: Sleepers -good consistent runners readily available/serviceable...cheap of course (By: ben_hutcherson)

    Yeah, I can understand that with knowledgeable people like you. But it will prevent others from bidding and the seller will lose money on auctions. If/when I sell something, I won't short change myself with blurry photos.

    Robert

  2. #17

    Default Re: Sleepers -good consistent runners readily available/serviceable...cheap of course (By: Jerry Treiman)

    Sorry I didn't see this earlier.

    Just pulled it out-database for ser # 19823277 says it is a grade 441 from 1916.

    It is an "adjusted" wheeler 12s and I may find reason to get it proper. But it was a movement only & I failed in my attempt to fabricate a winding stem. The one from a later Elgin works kinda to test it-but that one is in use on a better running watch.

    And I think I have a favorite-Hampden Dueber Grand 12s that a very kind older gent sold me. He even sent a e-mail to make sure I was happy with it. Was in a wrong case-modified it to fit on my lathe & then added a viewback-small-because I had an extra crystal & why not.
    Then there is my latest & the 1st Traveler I've worked on-great watch!. Very accurate & this one I had a winder issue-removed a shim plate to solve it as the crown gear teeth had worn a bit. Otherwise it was pristine inside-and very dirty outside.
    Both of these were $20.00 delivered!
    I hate the ooops factor but I'm learning to avoid certain traps. I really just want a small pile of my own tuned & ready to go.
    Thanks!


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  3. #18

    Default Re: Sleepers -good consistent runners readily available/serviceable...cheap of course (By: Whereisitat)

    Dang memory...

    This one was movement only I stole the case front from a different 12s. Not that it really matters but I caught that when I re-read this.

    I have a 1906 Wheeler that I want to make perfect-it now has a broken mainspring & had a bent balance wheel. Very pretty & I used the case front for that one. Not into originality for the most part unless I get one that deserves it. Those are mostly out of my price range but if I can get the South Bend I dropped back in tune that would be my best E-bay purchase as it was almost mint inside-where it counts for me.

  4. #19
    Registered User musicguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sleepers -good consistent runners readily available/serviceable...cheap of course

    My original favorite size for collecting was 18s, then I bought some 16s
    Over my collecting years I only have 2 12s. (now I have 3)

    The other day I was looking at movements only, and wasn't sure of the size
    of a particular movement but it looked very nice to me.
    I did a search of the serial number in the elgin database, and it
    turned out to be a 12s.

    I spent $50 on it. Not sure if I overpaid or not(probably did).
    It was a 1900 Elgin grade 237 movement only.
    It's in beautiful shape, very clean and running, just needs a case.


    Rob
    Last edited by musicguy; 03-21-2017 at 04:37 AM.

  5. #20
    Registered User Jerry Treiman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sleepers -good consistent runners readily available/serviceable...cheap of course (By: musicguy)

    Rob - you got a bargain! The grade 237 is a lovely and high quality movement. It is also relatively uncommon (for Elgin) with only 2000 listed. It is one of my favorite 12,size Elgins.
    Jerry Treiman, NAWCC member since 1971
    Charter member of Pocket Horology Chapter 174

  6. #21
    Registered User musicguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sleepers -good consistent runners readily available/serviceable...cheap of course

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Treiman View Post
    Rob - you got a bargain! The grade 237 is a lovely and high quality movement. It is also relatively
    uncommon (for Elgin) with only 2000 listed. It is one of my favorite 12,size Elgins.
    Thanks Jerry, after I bought it I did a Google search for Grade 237 and I saw
    some of the things you have said about them in the past.
    I also saw that you had mentioned that the center wheel was gold
    plated. I think the hands are gold too?
    I asked the seller(a gold scrap seller) what they would take for it, and they said
    what ever you offer(as if they didn't think it was worth much).
    So I offered $50.00 I didn't want to insult them, but figured
    I should start there. To my surprise, they said OK.
    I think if I offered less they would have taken it.


    Thanks
    Rob
    Last edited by musicguy; 03-21-2017 at 10:18 AM.

  7. #22
    Registered User musicguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sleepers -good consistent runners readily available/serviceable...cheap of course

    photo
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 1.jpg   IMG_5727 (3).jpg   IMG_5727 (2).jpg  
    Last edited by musicguy; 03-23-2017 at 08:11 PM.

  8. #23

    Default Re: Sleepers -good consistent runners readily available/serviceable...cheap of course (By: musicguy)

    Yes, it's always hard to know what to offer for something when you don't know much about it and you're not sure how much the other guy knows or what his temperament is like.
    I'd say that if it's running then straight away you've saved more than you spent on it, on account of not needing to shell out to get it fixed up.

  9. #24
    Registered User musicguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sleepers -good consistent runners readily available/serviceable...cheap of course

    Quote Originally Posted by topspin View Post
    I'd say that if it's running then straight away you've saved more than you spent on it, on account of
    not needing to shell out to get it fixed up.
    I wound her up and set it to my 1928 B W Raymond daily carry watch.
    Just a note, it took me two weeks(I don't own a timing machine)
    to regulate the B W Raymond(to be extremely accurate). So far after two days, the
    1900 12s Elgin 21j has kept perfect time. I still should get it serviced(and will),
    but it's working so perfectly and accurately, and has a very long run time
    (and it's one that I'm not going to run very regularly)
    that I may just leave this one alone.


    Rob

  10. #25
    Registered User musicguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sleepers -good consistent runners readily available/serviceable...cheap of course

    From the, "The 1903 Oy Company Jewelry Catalog"
    http://elginwatches.org/scans/sales_...y/m_index.html

    The no name grade 237 watch cost $77.00 dollars in 1904
    it was $17 more than the Veritas grade 214 23 jewel at $60.00
    (Both sales prices are not including a PW case)

    Using the inflation calculator:
    What cost $60 in 1900 would cost $1754.71 in 2016.
    What cost $77 in 1900 would cost $2251.88 in 2016.

    Without talking about specific "current values" of watches, today's (ebay) completed watch sales would have the
    Veritas as a much more "Valuable" watch than the 237. But in inflation
    adjusted dollars (in today's dollars not value) the 237 would be $497.00 more
    expensive than the Veritas.

    I don't buy watches to resell, so a watches value to me is based on
    what I want to believe it is. Every time I buy another watch I tell my
    wife, "this one is really nice!!".
    She says, "that's exactly what you say about every watch you buy."


    Rob

  11. #26

    Default Re: Sleepers -good consistent runners readily available/serviceable...cheap of course (By: musicguy)

    I think we have something similar happening with Waltham grades. Even a fairly high-spec, low-production numbered grade will often sell for a lot less than a comparable "named" grade.
    I wish the good folk at the factories had made a point of stamping grade name or number onto every movement. I've only seen Waltham numbered grades 645, 845 and 870 (wristwatch) marked. Conversely, many of the South Bends I've seen, do have their numbered grade marked (although not my beloved 331, for some reason.)

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