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  1. #1

    Default First wheel problem

    The wheel on the arbor of the first wheel has become loose. What is the best way to attach the wheel to the arbor ?

  2. #2
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    Default Re: First wheel problem (By: clockman230@comcast.net)

    The original design is a press fit, possibly staked. I have successfully completed this repair using a Loctite product. Either should work.
    Stan

  3. #3

    Default Re: First wheel problem (By: sjaffe)

    The first wheel retains the power from the spring, will locktite hold the wheel ?
    pamacm

  4. #4
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    Default Re: First wheel problem (By: clockman230@comcast.net)

    YES

    (From previous post): I have successfully completed this repair using a Loctite product.

  5. #5

    Default Re: First wheel problem (By: sjaffe)

    I think we need to know what movement you're dealing with, clockman. Some pictures of the wheel would help a lot too!
    A man with a clock always knows the time. A man with two clocks is never sure.

  6. #6

    Default Re: First wheel problem (By: clockman230@comcast.net)

    Normally the wheel is held to the hub with a cupped washer which is staked to a light friction fit between the wheel and the hub. If the wheel is floppy all you need to do is increase the old staking slightly. Make a staking punch that matches the old marks. Support the hub on an anvil with the proper size hole. Do one light tap on each point (usually there are 4). Repeat as necessary until you get a little friction and no wobble.
    Willie X

  7. #7

    Default Re: First wheel problem (By: Willie X)

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie X View Post
    Normally the wheel is held to the hub with a cupped washer which is staked to a light friction fit between the wheel and the hub. If the wheel is floppy all you need to do is increase the old staking slightly. Make a staking punch that matches the old marks. Support the hub on an anvil with the proper size hole. Do one light tap on each point (usually there are 4). Repeat as necessary until you get a little friction and no wobble.
    Willie X
    Lets be clear what the problem is. If the wheel is wobbly and loose on the hub, do what Willie said and positively DO NOT USE LOCTITE or you will never be able to wind the clock. If the brass hub is loose on the steel arbor then we really need to see the part to determine how the hub was originally attached. Some (E. Ingraham for example) use a pin that can shear off. Others press the hub onto a spline.

    RC

  8. #8

    Default Re: First wheel problem (By: R. Croswell)

    Thanks for all suggestions. This is a 400 day clock. Staking seems like the way to go. I do not know how to post pictures; however, the wheel is pressed on to the arbor with @ 10 spokes on the outside of the wheel. I have several degrees of wobble on the arbor. Explain the staking technique, please.
    pamacm

  9. #9

    Default Re: First wheel problem (By: clockman230@comcast.net)

    To post pictures, use the white camera icon in the reply box.
    A man with a clock always knows the time. A man with two clocks is never sure.

  10. #10

    Default Re: First wheel problem (By: clockman230@comcast.net)

    Quote Originally Posted by clockman230@comcast.net View Post
    Thanks for all suggestions. This is a 400 day clock. Staking seems like the way to go. I do not know how to post pictures; however, the wheel is pressed on to the arbor with @ 10 spokes on the outside of the wheel. I have several degrees of wobble on the arbor. Explain the staking technique, please.
    I'm afraid that we (at least me) don't understand just what you are describing. I've never seen a 400-day clock with a wheel that has 10 spokes, or spokes "on the outside of the wheel"? The first wheel (sometimes called the 'great wheel') is the wheel (gear) with no spokes that has the barrel that contains the main spring and winding arbor. That wheel drives the pinion (small gear) that's on the arbor (axle) that has the second wheel (large gear that usually has 4 spokes). The pinions are the small (usually steel) 'gears' that are made as part of the arbor (axle). The "wheels" are the larger brass gears. The train of wheels and pinions ends at the top of the movement with the 'escape wheel' which is the smaller brass wheel with teeth that have a distinctively different shape.


    If you have an arbor that is wobbling ["I have several degrees of wobble on the arbor"] then you likely have a worn pivot hole (unlikely on a 400-day clock), or a broken pivot. If a wheel (the brass gear) is loose on the arbor we need to look into what caused this as well as how to repair it. If this is perhaps the 'second wheel', these cam sometimes be damaged when a spring busts or is suddenly released. In these clocks the brass wheels are usually pressed onto a turned down section of the pinion that acts like a spline. If that's where the wheel is loose, be aware that the pinion and spline may be hardened and attempting to stake it may only chip it. Before discussing how to fix this problem we need to be sure just what it is that we need to fix.

    Regarding posting pictures, first take pictures close up of the parts as well as a couple that show the complete movement. Make sure the pictures are sharp which is best achieved when one has good light. Transfer the pictures to your computer. There are two ways to get the pictures in your post here. One is "use the white camera icon in the reply box", two is click the 'Go Advanced' button, then click manage attachments, then follow the somewhat confusing directions to select and upload all the pictures as a batch. I find the second way the easiest once one learns it.

    RC

  11. #11

    Default Re: First wheel problem (By: clockman230@comcast.net)

    Forget the staking and follow RC's instruction. I have never seen a loose 1st wheel on a 400 day clock.
    The first wheel contains the spring. Maybe you are speaking of the 2nd wheel?
    Willie X

  12. #12
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    Default Re: First wheel problem (By: Willie X)

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie X View Post
    Forget the staking and follow RC's instruction. I have never seen a loose 1st wheel on a 400 day clock.
    The first wheel contains the spring. Maybe you are speaking of the 2nd wheel?
    Willie X
    Whatever, If things have come loose this end, there should most likely be more serious damage further entrain.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: First wheel problem (By: clockman230@comcast.net)

    Are you, perhaps, referring to the ratchet that has the click on the outside of the drum that has the winding arbor?

    Quote Originally Posted by clockman230@comcast.net View Post
    Thanks for all suggestions. This is a 400 day clock. Staking seems like the way to go. I do not know how to post pictures; however, the wheel is pressed on to the arbor with @ 10 spokes on the outside of the wheel. I have several degrees of wobble on the arbor. Explain the staking technique, please.
    If you are not fired with enthusiasm, you will be fired with enthusiasm. Vince Lombardi

  14. #14
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    Default Re: First wheel problem

    Quote Originally Posted by THTanner View Post
    Are you, perhaps, referring to the ratchet that has the click on the outside of the drum that has the winding arbor?
    Sounds likely. This is usually a visible loose screw and cock, however.
    Some have the click wheel inside the plate but I can't see it coming loose there.

    Anyway, if the square is sloppy, though it can be temporarily fixed, this is a dangerous part of the clock to make mistakes in. If a ratchet wheel or click wheel, these are inexpensive fixes for something that could cost a whole lot more.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: First wheel problem (By: roughbarked)

    And I am wondering if the cock has been removed and it simply seems loose? Pictures will help, but I think most of these have 10 teeth?

    Quote Originally Posted by roughbarked View Post
    Sounds likely. This is usually a visible loose screw and cock, however.
    Some have the click wheel inside the plate but I can't see it coming loose there.

    Anyway, if the square is sloppy, though it can be temporarily fixed, this is a dangerous part of the clock to make mistakes in. If a ratchet wheel or click wheel, these are inexpensive fixes for something that could cost a whole lot more.
    If you are not fired with enthusiasm, you will be fired with enthusiasm. Vince Lombardi

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