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  1. #1

    Default I need some information from this pw

    Dear forum members!


    I want to receive information from this pocket watch, if anyone has any information, please share with me here in the forum.


    Best regards! Peter from Hungary
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails pw1.jpg   pw2.jpg   pw3.jpg  

  2. #2

    Default Re: I need some information from this pw (By: sternerp)

    Hi Peter, for a start it is High Grade with a Chronometer Balance and it is Freesprung. It possibly is an unsigned Deck Watch. I think that it is Birmingham 1888. I would love to have it. Regards Ray

  3. #3

    Default Re: I need some information from this pw (By: Omexa)

    Yes, very interesting watch. I've seen larger ship's chronometers with that style of balance (helical hairspring and large counterweights), but not one in what looks to be pocket-watch size. It would be interesting to find out whether or not the movement is signed under the dial.

    If you don't get as much information as you'd like here, you might try posting your question and images in the "Chronometer" section. Good luck.

  4. #4
    Registered User gmorse's Avatar
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    Default Re: I need some information from this pw

    Hi Peter,

    Ray is quite right, it's dated 1888 and has a chronometer type balance, more specifically an Earnshaw pattern, (which doesn't mean it was made by the Earnshaws I'm afraid). Whether it also has a spring detent escapement isn't clear, but it looks as though it might have. These escapements are quite delicate, and shouldn't be dismantled unless you have a lot of experience with them. The hairspring is helical, and it's freesprung, which means that there's no regulator for the owner to fiddle with and undo the adjuster's delicate work.

    The "A.B" shows that the case was made by the Dennison Watch Case Company in Birmingham.

    These watches are not that common, and this one looks as though it's in reasonable condition, although missing the seconds hand and in need of a clean.

    If it would be better in the Chronometer section, you can ask a Moderator to move it rather than posting again.

    Regards,

    Graham

    "Ut tensio, sic vis" - Robert Hooke

  5. #5

    Default Re: I need some information from this pw (By: gmorse)

    Hi Graham, Ray, and MrRoundel!
    Thank you very much for your quick answer and new information, in the meantime, i was looking for information, and i talked my watchmaker friend. I'm just amateur collector, and i can not restore this to working order. I sent this to my watchmaker, he will produce from this more photos when dismantled.
    what i saw it: its chronometer escapement, but unfortunately incomplete, staff balance is broken, damaged second pivot is lost, and some teeth on the escape wheel faulty. My watchmaker will much work, by the time to completed this.
    https://www.silvermakersmarks.co.uk/...-AA-AB.html#AB
    On this site the Birmingham Silver Marks says about the A.B mark:
    Waltham Watch Company, 1882-1900, AB (Alfred Bedford) was the manager of the Waltham Watch Co, Holborn Circus, London
    and the other marks in Birmingham Date Letters it shows this watch produced really in the year 1888.
    Regards! Peter

  6. #6
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    Default Re: I need some information from this pw (By: sternerp)

    Hi Peter,

    There was a close relationship between Dennisons and the UK operation of Waltham. I'm glad you're having the watch restored, it's well worth it.

    Regards,

    Graham

    "Ut tensio, sic vis" - Robert Hooke

  7. #7

    Default Re: I need some information from this pw (By: gmorse)

    Peter, I'm moving this as suggested to the Chronometer Forum, where I hope it may attract fiuurther interest
    Martin Rosen

  8. #8

    Default Re: I need some information from this pw (By: gmorse)

    Hi Graham!

    Which silver marks presents that this is a Dennisons watch case?

    Anchor mark -> Birmingham
    O letter mark -> 1888
    the walking lion -> sterling silver
    and A.B the makers mark

    Or the shape of the casing can be concluded that?

    Regards! Peter

  9. #9

    Default Re: I need some information from this pw (By: MartyR)

    Hi Martin!

    I was heedless, and did not realize there is separately section for chronometer watches. Thank you that were transferred here.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: I need some information from this pw

    Hi Peter,

    The marks in themselves don't tell anything other than what you've stated, and neither does the style of the case, it's the history behind the people involved which is the interesting part. The sponsor's (otherwise called the "maker's") mark "A•B" was, as has been said, for Alfred Bedford, the manager of Waltham's UK operation. However, this company did not own a case making facility in the UK although they implied that they did, but in fact they had cases made by the Dennison Watch Case Company. For various reasons which aren't entirely clear, Aaron Lufkin Dennison's mark, ("ALD"), wasn't used in the cases, but Bedford's was.

    I think it's clear that the movement in your watch had nothing whatever to do with Waltham. Pocket chronometers like this were always expensive and relatively uncommon; many were indeed used as deck watches on ships to carry the time from the main chronometers, installed safely below decks, to the navigating officers who were taking the noon sightings with their sextants. Others were bought by relatively wealthy people who just wanted a piece of advanced technology to wear and show off. Their main disadvantage as portable timepieces was that they did not respond well to rough treatment, being inclined to stop if shaken or jolted, (which was essential in a navigational instrument), although when gently treated they were accurate timekeepers.

    I don't know if your watchmaker has noticed it, but the spring for the barrel click on the barrel bar is missing; you can see the faint shadow of it and the holes for the screw and steady pin.

    Regards,

    Graham

    "Ut tensio, sic vis" - Robert Hooke

  11. #11

    Default Re: I need some information from this pw (By: MrRoundel)

    Dear MrRoundel!

    Earlier was not in my hands like this, but i have one Dr. H Crott catalogue from year 2007 (the Gerd Ahrens collection), there also shows more of these similar pieces (pocket chronometer).

    Regards! Peter

  12. #12

    Default Re: I need some information from this pw (By: sternerp)

    A very nice looking movement, it'd be interesting to see more of it. I am wondering if it has been recased however and also that the dial may not be the original.

    It looks to me as though the seconds hand arbor is not central to the hole in the dial and that the hole might have been enlarged slightly upwards towards the dial centre.

    The case looks to have a bit of room between it and the movement plate and the cut out for the single retaining screw is bigger than it needs to be. I'd expect a chronometer to all be just-so. Its just a hunch/guess really, maybe it is all right. It can be difficult to get a feel for something like this from photos. But if there are other signs of it being re-cased then the case marks can't be used to provide info relevant to the movement.

    Regards,
    Seth

  13. #13

    Default Re: I need some information from this pw

    Hi Seth!

    You are very good eyes, this dial really not original. (the original dial was fixed with 3 dial feet, the current just 2 dial feet)
    Meantime i got more photos from my watchmaker friend, i upload these also. That this movement are recased earlier, i can not decide, perhaps new pictures going to help.
    In my book (Gerd Ahrens collection) are listed similar pocket chronometers examples of silver and gold case also.


    Thank you everyone for the posts, i read all comments happy on this subject.

    Best regards! Peter
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails DSC04429.JPG   DSC04424.JPG   DSC04425.JPG  

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