Goal: $300, Received: $305.00 (102%) Contribute Now
Donate whatever you can or Join the 14,000 other NAWCC members for only $80 (plus $10 for hard copy publications). Check it out here.



Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 45
  1. #1

    Default Waltham Aircraft Clock

    How would I remove the movement? I can set the hands but when I try to wind, I only feel a springy resistance. Thanks.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails P1160006.jpg   P1160007.jpg   P1160005.jpg  

  2. #2
    Registered user. roughbarked's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Western NSW, Australia
    Posts
    1,041

    Default Re: Waltham Aircraft Clock (By: JoyF)

    They all looked much the same from outside. Most of those I've seen were made by Smiths.
    There is a ring around the glass. It clips in and out. There are two screws on the back. When the screws are undone and the ring is removed, the lot falls through the front.
    Last edited by roughbarked; 02-15-2017 at 03:36 PM.

  3. #3
    Forums Administrator harold bain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Whitby, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    39,114

    Default Re: Waltham Aircraft Clock (By: JoyF)

    I don't have experience with this particular clock, but I would try removing the two screws at the back, and see what comes loose.
    harold bain, Member ch 33
    "If it won't "tick",
    let me "tock" to it"

  4. #4
    Registered user. roughbarked's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Western NSW, Australia
    Posts
    1,041

    Default Re: Waltham Aircraft Clock (By: harold bain)

    Quote Originally Posted by harold bain View Post
    I don't have experience with this particular clock, but I would try removing the two screws at the back, and see what comes loose.
    You missed my edit.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Waltham Aircraft Clock (By: roughbarked)

    That "springy resistance" probably means that the click spring is broken.

  6. #6
    Registered user.
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Denver, Colorado
    Posts
    402

    Default Re: Waltham Aircraft Clock (By: harold bain)

    Any chance this one has night-glow paint on the hands and face that contains radium? Personally, I would not mess with it and take a chance.
    Dave Diel

  7. #7
    Registered user. roughbarked's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Western NSW, Australia
    Posts
    1,041

    Default Re: Waltham Aircraft Clock (By: dad1891)

    Quote Originally Posted by dad1891 View Post
    Any chance this one has night-glow paint on the hands and face that contains radium? Personally, I would not mess with it and take a chance.
    The amount of radium is negligible. It has mostly deteriorated. If you don't lick things and take care not to breathe any dust, There should be no harm.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Waltham Aircraft Clock (By: roughbarked)

    Quote Originally Posted by roughbarked View Post
    The amount of radium is negligible. It has mostly deteriorated. If you don't lick things and take care not to breathe any dust, There should be no harm.
    It has a half life of about 1600 years, the only thing that will have deteriorated is the paint itself so yes don't lick it and don't breathe in any dust.
    Nick, lots to learn, late starter.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Waltham Aircraft Clock (By: roughbarked)

    No Clock Repair Bench is complete without one of these

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bicron-Geige...wAAOSwCU1YpJ5b

    The man who knows how to make it work will always have a job, The man who knows why it makes it work will always be his boss.

  10. #10
    Registered user.
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Denver, Colorado
    Posts
    402

    Default Re: Waltham Aircraft Clock (By: roughbarked)

    Quote Originally Posted by roughbarked View Post
    The amount of radium is negligible. It has mostly deteriorated. If you don't lick things and take care not to breathe any dust, There should be no harm.
    I usually try to be nice....but sometimes.

    1. "It has mostly deteriorated." The half life of radium is 1600 years, so if there is radium on the hands and face, the activity has deteriorated less than 5%

    2. "The amount of radum is negligible" I'm glad that you know how much radium it contains......I don't.

    3. I avoid messing with it, so I don't have a lot of personal experience, but I have heard many times that the pigments and binders in the paint can deteriorate over time, causing the paint to flake off. If a little flakes off on your workbench and you don't notice, you drag it around on your tools, arms and hands, it's a gift that keeps on giving.

    I still remember an auto shop teacher I had back in the 70's that flatly said that breathing asbestos doesn't hurt you at all.
    Last edited by dad1891; 02-15-2017 at 04:50 PM.
    Dave Diel

  11. #11
    Registered user.
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Calif. USA
    Posts
    12,692

    Default Re: Waltham Aircraft Clock (By: BLKBEARD)

    Quote Originally Posted by BLKBEARD View Post
    No Clock Repair Bench is complete without one of these

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bicron-Geige...wAAOSwCU1YpJ5b

    I guess because it isn't glowing he thinks it is because the radium has deteriorated.
    Of course, that is wrong thinking.
    Any way, you don't need to spend 275 USD. You can use one of those cheap detectors that looks like a
    earphone plug for a smart phone. They aren't particularly good but will easily show you a radium dial
    is active.
    Even opening a clock that has been sealed needs caution. Radium creates radon gas that decays
    to other things that are like dust particles that have half lives in the hundreds of
    years as I recall. These are especially bad as they are biologically active. Opening one up should
    be done out doors with a dust protective breathing mask.
    Tinker Dwight

  12. #12

    Default Re: Waltham Aircraft Clock (By: Tinker Dwight)

    I only posted it in jest, cause it was a quick photo to grab of an older looking Geiger Counter.
    I think opening it outdoors might be a good idea, and maybe work in front of a desk fan on low blowing away from you. beyond that? I think I'd be more concerned bout how much radiation I get from eating fish that swim through Fukishima contaminated waters.

    But that's just me, and in no way a recommendation on anyone else's risk/comfort level.
    The man who knows how to make it work will always have a job, The man who knows why it makes it work will always be his boss.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Waltham Aircraft Clock (By: Tinker Dwight)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tinker Dwight View Post
    I guess because it isn't glowing he thinks it is because the radium has deteriorated.
    Of course, that is wrong thinking.
    Any way, you don't need to spend 275 USD. You can use one of those cheap detectors that looks like a
    earphone plug for a smart phone. They aren't particularly good but will easily show you a radium dial
    is active.
    Even opening a clock that has been sealed needs caution. Radium creates radon gas that decays
    to other things that are like dust particles that have half lives in the hundreds of
    years as I recall. These are especially bad as they are biologically active. Opening one up should
    be done out doors with a dust protective breathing mask.
    Tinker Dwight
    As part of my job I leak test the ionising sources we keep under strict H&S protocols. One part of that is to test the lead pot that contains the radium source for contamination from decay products. I don't have to wear a dust mask nor carry out the test out of doors. (I do wear disposable gloves, a lab coat and safety specs)

    It is only 5 mCi though, so it probably isn't as much radium as an old military instrument.

    The problem with radium based paints is really the paint, the binders become friable after time and inhaling or ingesting an alpha source is very bad news.

    The level of risk with a larger clock or instrument is much higher than, say, with a trench watch, because there is so much more paint involved.
    Nick, lots to learn, late starter.

  14. #14
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Williamson County, Texas
    Posts
    680

    Default Re: Waltham Aircraft Clock (By: novicetimekeeper)

    I respect your choice to avoid radium, just as I respect people who choose to not eat meat. However, here are some facts for those who are concerned but undecided or unsure.

    Yes, there's radium in the paint. Yes, it has a half-life of 1600 years. Yes, if you ingest or inhale measurable amounts of it over an extended period of time it can cause problems.

    However, the amount of paint on the markers of the 2-inch dial in a cockpit clock (we'll call it that for simplicity) is very small. Eight dots, four bars, five numerals, and three hands - not a lot of paint. I have two Bergeon modern luminous paint kits. The thinner bottle leaked in shipment on the first one, so I have an empty vial for seeing how much everything weighs in the bottles. The luminous powder material in the kit weighs out at 70 milligrams (0.070g) and the binder weighs 80 milligrams (0.080g). You're supposed to mix them in visually-even quantities, so that makes it about 53% binder and 47% powder by weight.

    The radioluminescent paint (called Undark) used on cockpit dials had zinc sulfide (ZnS) as the fluorescent agent and a bit of radium to emit the alpha particles needed to cause the ZnS to fluoresce. The amount of radium had to be small to keep from using up the ZnS too quickly. The British Admiralty set the ratio at 215 micrograms (ug) of radium to one gram of ZnS. (0.000215g/g) I was unable to find a ratio for what was used by United States Radium, other than that it was "somewhat less". Let's use the Admiralty's ratio for simplicity. As with modern luminous paint, the radium-activated ZnS powder was mixed with a binder. (As a point of comparison, 215ug is about the weight of a one-inch-long (25.4mm) human hair. Meaningless factoid there.)

    The formerly-luminescent paint on a cockpit clock is pretty thick compared to new luminous paints. Instead of guessing how much there is, I used an Xacto knife to scrape the paint off the hands and dial from one of mine. (I'm going to refinish it anyway.) It weighed 17 milligrams. (Dang, that means only ten clock dial-and-hand sets per Bergeon kit. Ouch!) If we start with the 53:47 binder-to-powder ratio and subtract a bit from the binder for drying, it seems reasonable there might be in the neighborhood of 10 milligrams of powder; likely less.

    So we have 0.000215g of radium per gram of powder and 0.01g of powder. That gives us 0.00000215g of radium (2.15ug) on the entire clock. Now we have a guesstimate of "how much", and I tend to agree it falls in the category of "negligible". If you're dealing with tiny flakes of part of the paint, it gets even negligible-er.

    The Radium Girls all directly ingested or inhaled "several hundred to several thousand" micrograms of radium. Many of them developed cancers, many did not. As with all cancers, genetics plays a big part.

    The annual limit for the inhalation of radium is now set at 0.6ug per year. (It's actually 0.6 microCurie, but a Curie is based on radium's output.) That's inhaled, not simply being in the vicinity. That's 28% of the postulated amount of radium-based paint in a cockpit clock. For ingestion (actually eating it) the limit is 5ug per year, the equivalent of 2.32 clock dials.

    Don't eat the paint from clocks or watches with radium, and don't grind and snort the powder from them, either. Don't pick your nose while you're messing with radium-painted things. Wash your hands when you're finished. If you do your work on a sheet of aluminum foil and wad up and throw away the aluminum foil when you're through, you'll be protected. (Notebook paper is actually enough, but aluminum foil sounds like it has more oomph.)

    Again, if you choose to err on the side of caution, then rock and roll with that, too.

    Glen

  15. #15
    Registered user. roughbarked's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Western NSW, Australia
    Posts
    1,041

    Default Re: Waltham Aircraft Clock (By: glenhead)

    Humans can tolerate a certain amount of radiation. The watch contributes less radiation to our bodies than the soil.

    I'm not trying to play it down but science has looked at all of this due to the fact that dial painters who licked their brushes did suffer severely. It is why the chemistry of luminous paint was changed. However, as has been stated you do have to ingest enough of it in the first instance.

    The likelyhood of this is very low. Though I'd always suggest to err on the side of caution in everything, science has looked at this and stated that watch repairers are not in any great danger. A certain number of them smoke and this is far more dangerous for radiation poisoning than standing in Chernobyl.

    Alpha particles have almost no penetrating ability, and in general externally- occurring alpha particles are absorbed by the outer layers of skin which are naturally sloughed off, so no permanent damage occurs. If you swallow it, that's a whole other (very sad) story, as it concentrates in the bones and the alpha particles can do serious damage. See "Radium Girls" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radium_Girls for a starting point.
    And, of course, a watch case and dial glass will absorb any alphas from watch dials.
    http://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/177468/why-arent-we-affected-by-radium

    https://xkcd.com/radiation/
    Last edited by roughbarked; 02-15-2017 at 11:49 PM.

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 3
    Last Post: 05-01-2015, 07:40 PM
  2. Waltham Aircraft Clock Model XA 15 Jewels
    By Kimo in forum Clocks General.
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 06-24-2011, 09:33 PM
  3. American Pocket Watch Waltham aircraft clock
    By fixoclox in forum Watch Repair
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 03-09-2009, 07:40 PM
  4. American Pocket Watch Waltham Aircraft Clock Click Spring
    By watchwldr940 in forum Watch Repair
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 01-06-2009, 03:50 PM
  5. Waltham Aircraft Clock Click Spring
    By watchwldr940 in forum Clock Repair
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 12-12-2008, 01:45 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •