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  1. #31

    Default Re: Drive train tooth count (By: Phil Burman)

    What Tinker is driving at is known in chronometer circles as "reverse fusee". The chain from the barrel crosses over to the side of the fusee nearest the next pinion, instead of to the side opposite. As the chain unwinds to the larger end of the fusee, more and more of the side load on the pivots gets shared between the two arbors. This was known early on - something like 200 years ago.

    Johnny

  2. #32
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    Default Re: Drive train tooth count (By: Tinker Dwight)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tinker Dwight View Post
    What ever ratio you might choose, the minimum
    thrust on the main wheels pivot is still at the minimum when both
    the second pinion and the cord pull down from the same side.
    One can easily draw ones own vector diagram from this description.
    Tinker Dwight
    Hi Tinker, how is the first day of your holiday.

    Thanks for the post, I did do the vector diagram and came to your above conclusion in post #27. I'm grateful for your effort and the addition to my understanding. It's another factor to keep in mind when juggling all the parameters that influence train layout.

    Phil

  3. #33
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    Default Re: Drive train tooth count (By: Phil Burman)

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Burman View Post
    Hi Tinker, how is the first day of your holiday.

    Thanks for the post, I did do the vector diagram and came to your above conclusion in post #27. I'm grateful for your effort and the addition to my understanding. It's another factor to keep in mind when juggling all the parameters that influence train layout.

    Phil
    Hi Phil
    It is always good to confirm my math. Even with a calculator and
    knowing what buttons to push, I find that solving the problem in two
    different ways helps to get the right solution.
    I did it once with the sum of squares and then did it again the inverse tangent and
    then cosine.
    I got the same answer twice. Often a good chance I got it right.
    I don't know where I got the 15% number and was not able to recreate it.
    We are having a good trip so far.
    I did back up, hit a tree and bent the rear bumper.
    Tinker Dwight

  4. #34

    Default Re: Drive train tooth count (By: Tinker Dwight)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tinker Dwight View Post
    .......................................
    I did back up, hit a tree and bent the rear bumper.
    Tinker Dwight
    You just reminded me of when I did the same thing but might have gone one step farther.

    About 45 years ago I had a friend with me and he needed to make a phone call. Soooo I pulled into a large shopping center parking lot & dropped him off at a phone booth (remember them?). I decided to back the car around while he was making his call and the car was stopped with a CRASH.



    There were no cars in that entire area of the lot and I managed to hit the concrete footing for a huge, tall parking lot light. I destroyed the rear bumper on the ONLY thing that I could have hit other than the phone booth. At least I remembered where that was!



    Quote Originally Posted by Tinker Dwight View Post
    We are engineers, we don't need no stink'n instructions!
    Tinker Dwight
    I think we do need instructions!

    "To invent you need a good imagination and a pile of junk." - Thomas Edison
    Best wishes to Ya'll. Sincerely, Jim

  5. #35

    Default Re: Drive train tooth count (By: Tinker Dwight)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tinker Dwight View Post
    ..................................... assuming equal load on both ends.
    Tinker Dwight
    This just jumped out at me while reviewing this thread and I believe that this should be expanded on a bit.

    When clock movements become worn, it is the pinion end of the arbor that has the most wear because the wheel it meshes with is trying to push it sideways. For this reason many designers of higher quality clocks try to keep the pinions and wheels close to each other and on one side of the movement. Having the pinion farther away from the pivot allows the arbor to have greater leverage to resist this sideways force.

    Before I learned this, I often wondered why regulators often have plates spaced so far apart.
    "To invent you need a good imagination and a pile of junk." - Thomas Edison
    Best wishes to Ya'll. Sincerely, Jim

  6. #36
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    Default Re: Drive train tooth count (By: jhe.1973)

    Quote Originally Posted by jhe.1973 View Post
    This just jumped out at me while reviewing this thread and I believe that this should be expanded on a bit.

    When clock movements become worn, it is the pinion end of the arbor that has the most wear because the wheel it meshes with is trying to push it sideways. For this reason many designers of higher quality clocks try to keep the pinions and wheels close to each other and on one side of the movement. Having the pinion farther away from the pivot allows the arbor to have greater leverage to resist this sideways force.

    Before I learned this, I often wondered why regulators often have plates spaced so far apart.
    Yes, the pinion pivot end has the most load. Usually the second wheel is not only a high load
    but has the most unbalanced load in the clock. This means if any location should have
    a more robust pivot, it is likely the pinion end of the second wheel. Even on a cable with
    the cable and second wheel pivot on opposite sides, the second wheel pivot end has almost
    the same load as the main wheel that is ( on average ) more evenly distributed.
    The second wheel being way off center sees the almost the entire load.
    Tinker Dwight

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