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  1. #16

    Smile Re: Show and tell your 5star Vanguard (By: Mark UK)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark UK View Post
    ... The price point of USD71.50 in those ads got me running to google. The exchange rate at that time would have been around 2.8 Dollars to the Pound so that would have had a price tag of £25 (or more) over here in the UK which would have been the best part of a months wages in the early 50's for those in skilled employment - ...
    Mark:

    I don't have any wage data on hand for the 1950s to compare with your numbers. The best I can do is the December 1922 report (below) which shows the average monthly wage for a railroad worker to be $141.13. Since that includes laborers and other unskilled workers, I'd estimate that the monthly wages for those railroaders whose positions required them to carry a railroad watch to be in excess of $150.

    A few years later, the mail order price for a 23-jewel Vanguard watch fitted with a wind indicator in a 20 year case was $65, about a week and a half's wages. For those in Canada, 1922 prices are available (keep in mind that those prices are in Canadian dollars - I have no idea what the exchange rate was).


    Kent
    That guy down in Georgia

  2. #17
    Registered User doug sinclair's Avatar
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    Default Re: Show and tell your 5star Vanguard (By: Kent)

    I don't remember where I read it, but my impression was that engineers were paid on the basis of tonnage, and mileage. If the train wasn't rolling, they weren't paid. Probably similar for firemen, brakemen, and conductors. As an aside, in Canada in 1957, the price of a 992B was $195.00.

  3. #18

    Smile Re: Show and tell your 5star Vanguard (By: doug sinclair)

    None of the wage reports I've seen for U.S. railroaders mention tonnage, but I've only got a small sampling, mostly from the 1890s.

    As for the cost of a 992B, it was a lot cheaper from T. Eaton in 1953.


    Kent
    That guy down in Georgia

  4. #19
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    Default Re: Show and tell your 5star Vanguard (By: Kent)

    I'm rather partial to '92 model Vanguards with serial numbers lower than ~7.5 million. These have-to me-the most interesting demaskeen patterns.

    I especially like watches from the first two runs. They are designated in the ledgers as 17j, but a lot of them were upjeweled to 21j and marked "21 Ruby Jewels."

    Here are a couple from those runs




  5. #20
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    Default Re: Show and tell your 5star Vanguard (By: ben_hutcherson)

    Quote Originally Posted by ben_hutcherson View Post
    ...a lot of them were upjeweled to 21j and marked "21 Ruby Jewels."
    Nice examples Ben! What also caught my attention about the model 92 is that there are the earlier "21 Jewels" with capped escape lever/wheel, and later there are "21 Jewels" with jewelled barrel.

    Here is a model 1899 19J from 1900, OF pendant set, s/n 9545062. If I look up the database it comes back as 19J Riverside. If I search the database it suggests the first run of OF 19J wasn't until the 11mill s/n. I haven't yet stripped this one down to see if all numbers match but the damask is convincing, as is the diamond end stone. I can only assume that there was a short run of 19J earlier than suggested. The case is a Dennison 25yr filled, the dial is plain and appears to be hand painted.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 19J OF mvmt2.jpg   19J OF dial.jpg  
    Last edited by Mark UK; 02-08-2017 at 02:53 PM. Reason: removed large pics

  6. #21
    Technical Admin Tom McIntyre's Avatar
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    Default Re: Show and tell your 5star Vanguard (By: Mark UK)

    Serial numbers above 7.55 million contain watches that were grouped to reduce the size of the listing and only provide information about parts replacement. i.e. the grade, jewel count, etc. is not accurate but the replacement parts are.

    The new site for Waltham serial number lookup provides the ability to look at the original input documents for any serial run. http://nawccinfo.nawcc.org. That landing page will change in the near future to show other NAWCC member material in addition to the Waltham serial numbers.
    Tom McIntyre Click me.
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  7. #22
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    Default Re: Show and tell your 5star Vanguard (By: Tom McIntyre)

    Tom, the pdf of the original input documents have my Vanguard down as a run of 19J OF Riversides. If my watch is correct then it will be from an early run of 19J OF Vanguards as yet not recorded anywhere. It would have had to have been a small run as the s/n range for the Riverside run was only 100.

  8. #23

    Default Re: Show and tell your 5star Vanguard (By: Mark UK)

    Here's three of my Vanguards that I particularly like.

    A 19J Demi-hunter in a Dennison G/F case. One of 500 made in three runs. This one is from the last run, S/N 20001351.



    This one is a 23J Vanguard with winding indicator S/N 25344351 cased at the factory in a green G/F case.


    This is a 23J, 1892 Model S/N 12080436 open faced movement in an unusual Dubois demi-hunter 14K solid gold case with engraved numerals filled with pale blue enamel that winds at the 12 o'clock position.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails DSCF0198.JPG   DSCF0202.JPG   DSCF0203.JPG   DSCF0200.JPG   DSCF0194.JPG  

    DSCF0195.JPG   DSCF0196.JPG  

  9. #24
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    Default Re: Show and tell your 5star Vanguard (By: doug sinclair)

    Quote Originally Posted by doug sinclair View Post
    I don't remember where I read it, but my impression was that engineers were paid on the basis of tonnage, and mileage. If the train wasn't rolling, they weren't paid. Probably similar for firemen, brakemen, and conductors. As an aside, in Canada in 1957, the price of a 992B was $195.00.
    Doug, this is Canadian info but the USA was very similar, running trades employees in thru freight service (Enginemen, Firemen, Conductors & Brakemen) were paid in a mileage basis.

    Initial terminal time, make up train, air test, etc., was paid at an hourly rate of 12 1/2 miles per hour.

    Upon departure you went from the hourly rate to straight running for the length of the subdivision and were paid only subdivision miles regardless of running time to the final terminal.

    The rate per mile remained the same.

    When arriving at the final terminal you would revert to the hourly rate, yard train, power to shop, until going off duty.

    When this system came into being trains moved much slower than today and it was calculated that it took 8 hours to travel 100 miles which is where the 12 1/2 mph figure (8 X 12 1/2 = 100) came from.

    So when it all shook out, 2 hour delay at each end = 50 miles plus 132 subdivision miles = 182 miles

    Return trip, lets just use 182 again = 364 for the round trip.

    Enginemen and Firemen were required to make 3800 miles per month (Conductors & Brakemen, 4300) so after 11 trips using an average of 350 miles per trip a Hoghead would have made 3850 miles.

    At that point he would go "off for miles" with a 50 mile bank toward next month and would go back on the board at midnight on his mileage date and begin his month over again.

    Regarding pay for tonnage, in some cases there was a very small increase in the rate paid per mile for various tonnage increments.

    Later there were increments for train length.

  10. #25

    Default Re: Show and tell your 5star Vanguard (By: onsite)

    HI there,
    I noted this thread quite some time ago, but just found some of my pictures recently, so here are some of my favorite Vanguards.
    Bill
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 2 003.jpg   2 006.jpg   19j vanguard 1892 002.jpg   19j vanguard 1892 004.jpg   crts 001.jpg  

    crts 003.jpg   Vanguard Mdl 92 PS Ser 7002653 001.jpg   Vanguard Mdl 92 PS Ser 7002653 005.jpg   Waltham WI 003 [].jpg   Waltham WI 005 [].jpg  


  11. #26
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    Default Re: Show and tell your 5star Vanguard (By: Kent)

    Thought I would post a couple of mine. It is hard to pick favorites from the ones I have.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails DSC_0063.jpg   DSC_0059a.jpg   DSC_0070-001.jpg   DSC_0075.jpg  

  12. #27

    Default Re: Show and tell your 5star Vanguard (By: luvsthetick)

    Another of my "faves" this time in a salesmans display case

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails $_32 (1).jpg   $_32 (7).jpg   $_32 (5).jpg  

  13. #28
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    Default Re: Show and tell your 5star Vanguard

    I have identical movement appearance to preceding movement 18150979 with 20066808 23j Montgmery rr dial and balance diamond cap. Was it a standard 1915 feature for the 23j Vanguard 16s ? I notice similar diamond cap in 16s 19j here from about 1900. artbissell
    Last edited by artbissell; 03-16-2017 at 10:53 AM.

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