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  1. #1

    Default Schatz cuckoo starwheel question

    Okay, I'm back to this Schatz cuckoo. It all runs hunky-dory, except that the star wheel needs adjusting (drops a lever too early).

    My question, before I tear the movement apart again: Is this between-the-plates star wheel adjustible on its arbor, or is it fixed immovably on the arbor?

    If adjustible, what is the recommended method for doing the adjusting? (Tentative poking at it showed that it's --at least-- on there very tight. And not easy to get at.)

    If not adjustible, then it's gonna be: separate the plates enough to tweak the wheel a tooth or two. Eek. Which is why I yam praying for adjustibility.

    Guidance please, anybody?

    bangster
    1. Check out the REPAIR HINTS & HOW-TO's forum! Click Here.

  2. #2

    Default Schatz cuckoo starwheel question (RE: bangster)

    Okay, I'm back to this Schatz cuckoo. It all runs hunky-dory, except that the star wheel needs adjusting (drops a lever too early).

    My question, before I tear the movement apart again: Is this between-the-plates star wheel adjustible on its arbor, or is it fixed immovably on the arbor?

    If adjustible, what is the recommended method for doing the adjusting? (Tentative poking at it showed that it's --at least-- on there very tight. And not easy to get at.)

    If not adjustible, then it's gonna be: separate the plates enough to tweak the wheel a tooth or two. Eek. Which is why I yam praying for adjustibility.

    Guidance please, anybody?

    bangster
    1. Check out the REPAIR HINTS & HOW-TO's forum! Click Here.

  3. #3
    Bill Chalfant
    Guest

    Default Schatz cuckoo starwheel question (RE: bangster)

    FWIW, It's been my experience (very little and none with a Schatz) – If the star wheel (pin wheel – whatever) doesn’t have a set screw it is supposed to be pretty, snug-snug-snug on the arbor - but not frozen and able to adjust without distorting any of its ‘spokes’ (old cast type lyre models excluded –the pin wheel always seemed all one piece with no adjustment other than tooth at a time, to me). If the star wheel spokes or pins are distorted the call and the gong strike will have an uneven quality.

    When their out of the movement, I check for distortion plus to see if the star is frozen and get a sense of how hard I need to 'push' it. With a small enough pair of pliers or hemostats - sometimes I'm able to squeeze a drive wheel spoke and a star spoke together or just use a small flat blade screw driver and a finger. Either way ‘push’ or ‘pull’, as close to the hub of the wheel as you can – less chance of distortion. If you feel you need to - take the whole movement out of the case, pull the wheel and check it.

    Other considerations - Are you checking with the bellows lift wires, the pendulum and gong arbor connected? No binding in the lift wires? Is Everything free and clear to move of each other? No interference from the pendulum hanger* as it swings? Are the arbors and their levers full of plier marks and goofy bends? No binding in the lift and gong arbors in their special pivot holes? Sometimes the center of three arbors (the coo) kind of hangs in mid-air, off its lift wire and is not at 'rest' on a pin. Plus make sure the gong arbor drops first.

    From the previous pictures, I can’t even guess how the bird gets out the door on these. Looks like a rocket launcher.

    EDIT: not the pendulum hanger - the crutch

  4. #4
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    Default Schatz cuckoo starwheel question (RE: bangster)

    Bang
    Don't know precise model, but most modern clocks that need the strike train timing adjusting using the star wheel, do allow it to move, albeit tightly. Brass nosed pliers are best.
    Stop for a minute, though!
    If it is a rack strike, and the GP can be moved on the arbor, there is no need to either split the plates or move the star wheel - all the timing can be done by rotating the GP on its arbor.
    Mike - banned member of the throwaway society.

  5. #5

    Default Schatz cuckoo starwheel question (RE: bangster)

    Hey Bill...
    Thanks for the suggestions. None of the "other considerations" arise. As I said, its only problem is star wheel...specifically, it drops the ding and cuck levers on the warning. Otherwise, runs smooth as grease.
    Cuckoo bird is mounted on a kind of hinge (hinge-pin in front). Below his nether end is a post sticking straight down into the movement, resting on an unusual cam. When the train unlocks, cam rotates and raises the sticking-down post, pivoting the bird on the hinge-pin and poking him out. At end of strike, post falls into a cavity in the cam and bird dodges back in. Very cute.

    Hey Mike...
    Dang it, if I keep listening to you I'll start thinking that EVERTHING can be fixed by playing with the gathering pallet.

    bangster
    1. Check out the REPAIR HINTS & HOW-TO's forum! Click Here.

  6. #6
    Bill Chalfant
    Guest

    Default Schatz cuckoo starwheel question (RE: bangster)

    That is a bird of another feather. I too thought it was deja vue all over again – and it just might be. Did you fix it? If adjusting the star cannot stop this, sounds to me (to borrow a phrase) you may still be a few ‘gnat's crotchets’ short of a tooth up there. Thanks for explaining the BH. I’d probably have to see it in action to grasp it all but I think I get the gist of it. It’s much different than a 30hr Herr that’s for sure.

  7. #7
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    Default Schatz cuckoo starwheel question (RE: bangster)

    Hi Bang
    If both the dang and the cuck levers fall on warning, that is one heck of a warning run. Is the warning pin also the stop pin?
    I would have thought that half a turn would be right.
    Thinking aloud - wheel to warning wheel 8:1, say dang, cuck and oo* are at 25%, 50% and 75% of GP wheel rotation, that sounds like 2 turns of warning wheel! What's going on here?
    Very strange. Maybe GP won't fix this one! :frown:

    Dang, Cuck and Oo* - well known Vietnamese firm of lawyers. :biggrin:
    Mike - banned member of the throwaway society.

  8. #8

    Default Schatz cuckoo starwheel question (RE: bangster)

    Actually, the ding and cuck weren't on the warning, but on the first microsecond of the unlock, before mr. bird even had a chance to decently poke his head out. Then a pause, followed by ooo. Sort of like this:

    dingcuck...ooo, ding cuck-oo, ding cuck-oo...

    Anyhow, to mangle a metaphor, I seized the bull by the horns, spread the plates enough to disengage the starwheel wheel (!) and advanced it a couple of teeth. Took care of the problem just fine. But NEXT time, I'll pay my attention to the gathering pallet.

    By the way, access to the starwheel was GREATLY facilitated by the way the bellows levers & arbors are held in place.



    That black metal strip is secured by a screw and a pillar nut. Loosen them, and the strip swings out of the way. The three levers can then simply be lifted out. Much handier, IMHO, than the way Regula et al does it.

    bangster
    1. Check out the REPAIR HINTS & HOW-TO's forum! Click Here.

  9. #9
    Bill Chalfant
    Guest

    Default Schatz cuckoo starwheel question (RE: bangster)

    Spending time making notes before disassembly more than pays for itself on the rebuild; unless you have a sister movement or excellent diagram for a guide.

    I don’t know if it’s any handier but just their design to keep the arbors secure. The strike arbor has no spring to deal with?

    I’m giving a picture post a go for other style pin wheels (star wheels).

    Here, from a 75x75 30 hr rack is a solid pin wheel – no adjustment I know of. It’s marked UNEX Germany (United Nations Export? I guess). It is a dead ringer for a modern Hubert Herr except built like tank.



    An unmarked (except for Germany) 75x75 30 hr count wheel, is a friction type adjustable pin wheel (star wheel)



    And, an eight day Shmeckybecky Regula with set screw adjustable pin wheel (star wheel – set screw is kind of in the shade.



    I didn’t know if the link back thingy would work so here’s a link back to

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/masterofnone/

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